Just came across this new product from Huber, the guys who made Advantech sheathing: http://huberwood.com/zip/
Don’t know too much about it at this point (cost, installation differences, etc), but it looks like a really smart product. We have some here in the office, and saw some at the lumber yard this morning, so it’s out there.
It’s wild to think that I’ll soon be driving by job sites with red roofs and green walls…
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
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Sounds like a great new innovation.... maybe. Sorta like Denshield, it's waterproof until you drive a bunch of fasteners thru it.
My question is this: when you're flashing a window, does this product allow for actual mechanical flashing? After all, if you're using wrap or felt you can lap your components to shed water. A head flashing over a window without wrap or felt over it makes no sense. Maybe with the Zip stuff you're supposed to tape the flashing down? I didn't read into the site to know, but that'd be my first question.
My guess would be that you use some sort of peel and stick technique...but that's a good question. I'm going to look at the installation details and see what I can learn about this stuff.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
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Yeah, they recommend peel n stick applied in the usual way.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
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I read some of Huber's text, and it is only designed as a roof sheathing board.
Quote from the first line of their DO NOTS section: "Do not use the Zip Roof Sheathing on walls."
My guess is that they have a flakeboard product, some kind of an OSB, with binders and resins designed to have a surface that can shed water for some length of time after field exposure. And for the joints, they have designed a tapefilm with adhesive backing that must vigorously bond to the surface of the panel.
I am waiting to see how those of us, the ones firmly in the Advantech camp, move over to this, which takes a radical departure from old-school thought.
I see that it only comes, for now, in 1/2" thickness. I also see that they won't stand behind it if installed at temps below 20 degrees F. The temp thing must be due to the tape's bonding performance, or lack of it, at low temps.
Hey, Mike Smith! Can we get you to use this stuff, and stop using Roof Top Guard?
Edited 10/3/2006 10:23 pm ET by Gene_Davis
Why is it said that the roofing panels are not to be used as wall panels?
Might this be because of the formaldahyde base in the glues?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
Andrew Clifford of Clifford Renovations, who serves as a steward of our history for future generations
We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.
Forrest - makin' magic every day
You know, I had the same question... it was the first thing I was curious about.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
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That's about all I could think of seeing they are pressed osb/paper boards.
What other variance of importance might be between the two panel styles?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John RuskinAndrew Clifford of Clifford Renovations, who serves as a steward of our history for future generationsWe can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
The roof sheathing could be like tech shield with reflective foil on the bottom side.
Yes that's true.
So that might make concerns involving ill placed vaporbarriers?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John RuskinAndrew Clifford of Clifford Renovations, who serves as a steward of our history for future generationsWe can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measureable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
Well, you know what I'm gonna say, LOL.
I just love brand new products that carry a 30 year guarantee. Gives me a real feeling of confidence to know a materials company would field-test a product privately in all sorts of climates for 30 years before putting it on the market. I thought that kind of responsible corporate behaviour had gone out with the dinosaurs.
Now where did I put that roll of felt...?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Why do you think there is such a distinction of roof sheathing being labeled as not for walls?
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin Laminate is just a picture of hardwood printed on countertop for your floor.We can imagine something that only exists in our heads, in a form that has no measurable, tangible reality, and make it actually occur in the real world. Where there was nothing, now there is something.Forrest - makin' magic every day
A sample of the wall sheathing was sent to our office. I gotta wonder about the price of the material - with the tape, and how labor intensive it is to put the tape on. The size of houses I'm building right now are requiring about $250 worth of housewrap, so that is one number to consider, but I can't imagine that the tape would not be more time consuming than housewrap. Also, looking at the pics, they show the wallpanels applied in a "running bond" type pattern. Wonder why that is? It would cause us (where I live) to have to do more blocking.
I just want to know if you're willing to put your faith is adhesive tape? It would be hard to persuade me, and marketing materials won't do it. If a bunch of building science types say it's OK then I might look at it.
Yea - ya gotta wonder how weatherproof the tape could be. Your (?) previous point about proper flashing of the windows is a good Q too.
BTW - regarding tape, on a house I was building I threw some pieces of scrap OSB down in the yard to keep from having to walk in the mud so much. One piece of OSB had a ~2' strip of Tyvek brand house wrap tape on it. That OSB laid there for at least 3 or 4 months and got well tromped into the mud. Later, just before final grade/landscaping when cleaning up the yard I noticed that the tape was still in place and intact. I tried pulling it off and it was still well stuck, although it did come off, especially since the OSB was partially deteriated from all the water and mud. Not exactly a scientific experiment but it did impress me...
Has anyone READ the detail at the Huber site?
It is stated very clearly, that the panels are for roof sheathing only, and NOT for walls.
Well, I thought I READ the info here:
http://huberwood.com/zip/zipwall/index.htm
Seems like there's a wall product.
Well, I'll be durned. The site I went to before was for the roof sheathing product, which they say should NOT be used for walls.
The whole thing is too complex for me. How do you expect the carps to know the diff?
It's different colors. http://huberwood.com/zip/ Tough on a color blind carpenter I guess. Those guys have a hard life anyway cause they don't know to stay away from the yellow snow...
Bump
Gene, the site has both products' specs on it, but in different places. It's a badly organised site but the stuff is there if you don't mind clicking back and forth a few times.
If I understood the mfgr's tech info correctly, the roof panels should not be used for wall sheathing because they are not moisture permeable.
I'm waiting for Gore-Tex¯ to enter the engineered building materials market, LOL....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
And when Gore-Tex enters, will you dispense with the wrap and felt?
Re your earlier comment about 30 year warranties on new products, that is what testing labs are for, with all their accelerated cycling gear.
When I was in the tech side of the building products biz, we had test chambers for accelerated weathering that gave shots of ultra UV, then heat, then sub-freezing, then rain, yadda, yadda, yadda, all in carefully ramped cycles, to the test pieces therein.
Housewrap is basically like Gore-Tex Dinosaur - but you want the Gore name?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
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I suppose I should have said, "I'm waiting sardonically (or 'resignedly', or 'fatalistically'--choose yer adjective) for Gore-Tex housewrap...," LOL.
Gore Tex doesn't work, either. It's a very expensive, high-tech membrane which works fine...in the testing lab. But it doesn't work in the real world because there's this thing called 'dirt' which the real world contains that gets into those micro-pores and blocks 'em up so the membrane no longer 'breathes' any better than a (much cheaper) plastic bag. As the wiser and greyer heads in the ski biz are wont to say, '"waterproof-breathable" is an oxymoronic figure of speech.'
The entire success of the Gore-Tex clothing application is founded on some very saavy marketing mixed in with ample doses of wishful thinking plus a good whack of embarrassment: The wishful thinking comes in because every winter athlete wants something that does what GoreTex claims to do. The embarrassment comes in because people don't like to admit they've let themselves be sold a bill of goods after having shelled out $300, $400, or $500 bucks for an $89.95 jacket. So instead of taking it back to the store and demanding their money back, they tell strangers who ask how wonderful it is so they won't look like a dummy.
To be fair, Gore-Tex lined garments work as advertised for a short period of time when they are brand new, right off the hanger. But once the impurities in people's sweat gets into the pores of the membrane (after about two weeks of use, maximum), it stops breathing. In theory, if you wash it properly, you will restore the breathability of the membrane. But you can't get all the micro-schnüüt out of those tiny little holes no matter how carefully you read and follow Gore's instructions.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
The wall product is what was sent to my office - it just looked like green OSB - IIRC.