I need to vent.
We recently have been battling water seeping into our basement and after days of pumping water out I said to my wife we should hire our plumber to put in a sump pit. She was very happy that I didn’t say I would do it myself since that rarely happens anytime soon. To boot, we are going away next week so we wanted to do it before we left. THe plumber said if I dug the hole he could squeeze it in. He told my wife to have me get something larger that a 5 gallon bucket so the pump wouldn’t cycle all the time. makes sense to me. he suggested something around 10 gallons. Well, I went four places looking for a sturdy 10 gallon plastic container. My options seemed to be either 5 gallons or 20 gallons and up – not much in between. So I bought a sump pit liner (ABS plastic ribbed container with a lid). designed for just this purpose. it was about 20 gallons. I dug the dang hole while the water poured in with each shovel full and finally got this thing in the ground. Problem is it wanted to float. I drilled some holes in the liner even though the plumber told my wife that he doesn’t do this. I needed the thing to stay in the hole. The plumber came today, did the piping, put the pump in, ran it and the container lifted out of the hole. Now he says he will be back after we get back from vacation to try to make this thing work by drilling even more holes in it and re-digging the hole after the water table has gone down. meantime he has a 5 gallon bucket rigged. I’m annoyed because I spent 6 hours digging muck out of a hole, soaking wet from my knees down to get that thing in the ground and I come home to see it in the corner (the liner). this is after I told the plumber it needed holes which he was still reluctant to agree with me on. now he says it needs more holes and my wife said if I had only gotten a ten gallon container ther would be no problems. I disagreed and she came back with well how many sump pits have you done? I said none but I still can think logically regardless of the situation. boats don’t have holes and they float, when a boat gets a hole, it sinks. I don’t need to be a plumber to know that. She is basically taking the plumbers side because it is someone she trusts (as opposed to me I guess). well next time he can dig his own D*** hole. leave me out of it.
Am I wrong on this?
“it aint the work I mind,
It’s the feeling of falling further behind.”
Bozini Latini
Replies
In terms of the plumber, No you are not .
In terms of the wife, No you are not.
In terms of thinking you are going to win the argument, Yes you are.
Put 4" of small stone ( gravel) in the bottom of the hole. Set two flue blocks one on top of each other on the gravel bed.Call plumber, your done.
mike
You are absolutely right. Who's house is this? Yours or the plumbers? It's yours and he should respect that.
I don't include my wife in stuff I do around the house any more. she doesn't know what she is talking about but insists on giving me advice I didn't ask for. So I leave her out. I do ask her if she likes this or that style of something. It is part her house but how it gets done is none of her business. I treat it like she is a client and I do everything. Ideas, design, plans, everything.
One of the main reasons I do this is because she second guesses my work. I don't let anyone do that. Period. I figure why do the work if I'm going to let someone second guess it. It takes all the fun out of the work!
Sure, someone can talk about how to do it and what would be best in their opinion ( one of the reasons I come here) but in the end I'm doing it and I stand behind my work. Who else is going to do that?
The first house we had was a condemned house. We lived in it while I fixed it up. I let her get way to involved and it stressed us out and it got us nowhere. I told myself then, never again. We've had three houses since that I didn't fix up because of that. This one my wife said she wanted me to fix up so I'm doing it. But on my terms. It just works better that way. She gets a nice house and I do it.
hv...i do lot's of sumps.... usually due to high spring water tables
your sump needs holes... but think about it......
you want to lower the water level enough so it stays below the bottom of your slab..
so .. if you make holes in the bottom of the sump your pump will attempt to lower the water level to the bottom of the sump ( the level that you make the holes at
all you are really tring to do is make a bigger reservoir
make the holes about 3 - 4 inches below the top of your sump
now put some large rocks in teh bottom of the sump ... all you have to do is overcome the buoyancy of the sump
or put some cast iron pigs in the sump... wnat ever it takes to keep the sump sunk
the water in the sump will help too... it will never go below the bottom of the pump
put the pump back in and you should be fine
didn't need a plumber for this... just a good sump, a good pump, and a good discharge pipe
hey... you forgot where your return key was , didn't you ? how about some white space for these tired eyes ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
thanks for the reply, I gues the space bar and return key got forgotten with me being all flustered. I had put several concrete pavers in the bottom to add weight and elevate the pump so water would remain. then I drilled holes in the top like you said. then backfilled with crushed stone. Even told the plumber that I was having the floating liner issue. He initially said no holes, let the water on top of the slab drain into the top. I said Why letit get to the top of the slab at all? he looked at me in surprise! I'm thinking that's why Iwanted a sump in the first place. Guess I gotta sit a watch him when he comes backcause I'm not diggin that thing twice. I did it once and it was fine, now with the liner pulled back out, the dirt and crushed stone filled in the hole.Now I think these guys are decent plumbers but it ust iritates me when what I said right in the beginning is how it needs to be but now I'm the bad guy for getting ticked off.guess I'm just not gonna win this one even if it gets done my way in the end - now it will be his idea - isn't he great?!"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
Go back to the "no return key" if your going to do it mid sentence!
I think if my wife was trying to give me advice while I was standing knee deep in mud all hell would break loose, think "food fight" from Animal House!
Doug
'get something larger that a 5 gallon bucket so the pump wouldn't cycle all the time.'
Any plumber worth his salt would put a check valve on the discharge pipe so that won't happen.
It doesn't sound like your guy has much experience with these issues.
We'd probably use one of our construction sump pumps to get the water to manageable levels. Using your new one is okay too but be careful about getting too much mud in it.
The problem with putting the holes in the sump container is that it will forever allow silt and other contaminants in, which isn't really a big deal because the stuff will settle down and soon only clear water will be filling the sump pit. I would have drilled lots of holes....lots of them, and then wrapped a layer of siltscreen around the unit before I lowered it.
Or, mabe not.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I am "not" a plumber and I have only limited experience with sump pumps. But you need to make sure that the water that you are pumping out of your basement is not recycling back. If for example, you are just dumping the water outside of your house against the foundation wall, there is a very good chance that the water will soak into the ground and come back through the weeping tile system.
Good advice here.
To hold it down temporarily, I would cut a 2x4 long enough to jam from a floor joist above to the bottom of the crock. Keep it to one side and that should hold it down and give you room to get the pump, check valve and pipe in.
Ditto on:
-making sure you discharge it well away from the house
-the plumber not having much experience with this
-20 gal is best. Anything less doesn't give enough room for the
primary pump and a back-up
I wouldn't bother with filter paper, every one I've put in or seen gets nice clear water once things settle down.
I would highly recommend putting in a battery back-up unit, I have at least one customer that was saved from a terrible mess by his.
John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
The 2 x 4 works great for correcting some of the other 'problems' that you mentioned ... ;o)Jeff
i have a related question-perhaps someone can offer advice????We have a large basement-roughly 2 large rooms in a T shape configuration( plus some additional utility rooms,storage rooms etc.--one of the large rooms was "finished" when the house was built(1941)-Terrazzo floor, wet bar, fireplace etc.-------water seeps in in the fireplace
clearley- I would prefer not to dig up the terrazzo floorA utility room is Behind the fireplace--so I have access to the backside of the fireplace-and adjacent to the fireplace.-there is also electic in the utility room-and a floor drainwould I be able to cut the floor in the utility room-insert a sump pit and pump-plub in the pump to the existing electric-and simply drain the sump into the floor drain?????It seems so simple-that I have to assume I am overlooking something glaringly obvious-(like draining into the existing floor drain being a no-no?) It just seems like the least hassle to attack the problem-and I would be able to locate the sump within say 7 feet of where the water appears in the other roomOK-this is where you folks with much more experience-shoot holes in the plan--thanks.
stephen
I don't see how it could hurt anything. Normally, the floor drains are draining into the sump but you already have your collection method. Do you know where your floor drains empty to? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Your floor drain no doubt drains to the sanitary sewer. Akron (and most other jurisdictions) require ground water to be drained to the storm sewer system.You can do it, but it would be considered "bootleg". It may or may not ever get discovered. It would be worth a shot, they don't send you to jail, they just issue a corrective order.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
svenny- i think eventually i would make other , more kosher ,arrangements.
It's just that it seems like i could get this system up and running-for a comparatively minimal investment in money and effort-see if it works-and later fine tune the eventual connections.at some point i want to replace the spouting drains-or some of them-and it seems i should empty the sump into THAT system eventually???
Stephen
Usually the sump water is drained into the downspout drains which are connected to the storm sewer system. I would do the quick and easy way, to the floor drain, then tie into your downspout drains when you take care of that problem.IMO, putting the crock where you propose is fine. Go for it. Dry out your basement, worry about the "kosher" fix later.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
I was assuming the same thing John. In the Detroit older suburbs, they did that too. Some had the gutters running into combo sanitary sewers which caused sewage overflows during heavy rains. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
stephen.... you want to put the sump somewhat remote from the area that is threatened from what i understand
depending on your soil type.... the water will either flow readily or, somewhat readily ... or not at all ( heavy clay )if you have poorly draining soil, over excavate your sump and install some screened stone... say 3/8 to 3/4... you could line it with some filter fabric before you put teh stone in
then install your sump...
the water flow will gradually increase and eventally suck the water from the offending area to the sump area...
where you pump it to is up to you
storm drains are ideal...
but any place away from the house is good
sumps can move an enormous amount of water, so beware of creating a nuisanceMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
mike- can you define "somewhat remote" ?
we are talking pretty heavy clay hereI would still like to keep it in that utility room if possible-----that would be very convenient-I could move it to the other end of the utility room-which would keep it say 12-15 feet away from problem areaor- i could move it into a different room altogether-say the laundry room-which would have it 30-40 feet away------
or am i misunderstanding the entire situation?
stephen
even in heavy clay, chances are good that the slab was laid on some pervious soil...
so the water SHOULD find it's way to your sump rather than up thru the slab
path of least resistance sort of thingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Dare I suggest this to a roofer? Where is the water coming from? If the fireplace is on inside walls as you describe it to be then it isn't from foundation seepage. Might be from high groundwater but what about the leaks or absorption by the chimney itself being the source of the water? You solution should work , just that I always want to know where the source of the water is .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
It's a water table thing.
Take the five gallon bucket out to the driveway, scrape up some course gravel. Put the plastic pit in the whole, poor in enough gravel so it doesn't float. Level out the gravel, put a round patio block on top of the gravel so the pump has something to set on.
Tell your wife you were tired the other day, and a good nites sleep has let you think of this idea, and if you go about it right you could drop a hint that she should take you out to dinner for doing such a good job.
I'll never tell.
I think what Mike S. meant was to break up your writings into a few more paragraphs. A typical paragraph might have 5 sentences in it.