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You can bore the centers as indicated on them or allowed per specs that vary slightly with each size, type, and manufacturer.
But you cannot in any way at any time notch them.
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Thanks for the reply. How much can you bore from the center?
Luke
The manufacturer usually will supply you with a chart showing how and where you can cut holes. Trus Joist McMillan sends them out with the joists usually. In any event, get with the manufacturer.
if this is a new house, the retailer is required by the maker to send out the printed info with the delivery. So I got the impression that this is an existing house. If new, he can go back to where he bought them from - unless Luke is the mechanical installer
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As I said, that varies by manufacturer and type and size. The manufacturer's name is stamped on the side of the center web. Their specs and install/useage requirements can be found in a pdf online by searchingNot all I-joists are the same. Each maker has two to four types.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you google TrusJoist, you should find Weyerhaueser's I joist site. They'll have a pdf of acceptable places/sizes of holes to drill.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
That would be fine if these are Weyerhouser joists.
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No, I'm not the installer, but the plumber did cut or notch the existing holes larger then the existing holes. There is no web at the bottom of the round hole.
I thought that the distance between hole should be 2x the diameter of the hole and you should not cut the web down to the flange.
>> No, I'm not the installer, but the plumber did cut or notch the existing holes larger then the existing holes. There is no web at the bottom of the round hole. << Luke,Your plumber is an idiot just like the rest of the plumbers who do stupid stuff like this. Any real plumber would have the I-joists specks on him that show him exactly how much to cut and exactly how far in from the inside of the wall he can cut.Before he even started cutting even if they are existing I-joists he should've found out the manufacture and got all the necessary information before starting. Pure stupidity!>> I thought that the distance between hole should be 2x the diameter of the hole and you should not cut the web down to the flange. <<Where did you get that thought from? Are you the GC? If so, you should have all the information also and you should've given it to the plumber. There’s no excuse for this stuff to happen.Now your going to have to talk to the Architect or Engineer on how to fix this. Is there an Architect on this job?I will be on a job sometimes still finishing up some framing and sometimes a plumber will ask me where he can drill the holes and I will tell him nothing at all where to do so and tell him to get the literature on it because that's not my job to drill holes in I-joists. I just install them.I’m sick and tired of herein about these ignorant plumbers who just cut apart framing as if they were a bunch of drunken A-HOLES!If I was an electrician/plumber or hvac contractor I would have every single piece of information how to drill these things.It’s just plain simple common sense!
Joe Carola
If more GCs would start back charging them for the repairs, they would perk up and pay attention pretty quick. Where is your GC or his project manager when the plumber is asking you this Q?
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>> Where is your GC or his project manager when the plumber is asking you this Q? <<The GC'S or Project Managers are not always there 8 hours a day.If I get a stupid question like that I will tell the plumber exactly how I feel and if I don't have the literature in my truck, I will tell him to call the GC and ask him if he has it. Until then, I'll tell him not to cut one joists until the GC gets back. I don't give a sh!t what they say. I'll call the GC if I have to. I know it's not my job but if I were framing for you and you couldn't be there for something, I would watch out for you and =make sure something stupid like this doesn't happen.I have a great relationship with all the builders and gc's I do work for and I will never turn my head on something just because I'm the framer. I will try to help out when I'm on your jobsite as much as I can.
Joe Carola
Yeah, I have been accused of sticking my nose in too far in the past. But I don't like to work around hacks period.LOL, Sometimes it seems like half the plumbers I have known don't know how to read.
Apologies to all the plumbers here reading this!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
HuH?
Did you say somethin?
I was just scrolling down the topics & my ears started to burn.
Thought I'd stop by here, but no pics so how am I suppose to know what's goin on?When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
>> Apologies to all the plumbers here reading this! <<Piffin,I make no apologies to any ignorant plumbers that keep hacking up lumber. They're all a bunch of idiots. There's no excuse to drill into 2x beams and destroy them. No excuse to cut into I-joists without having the proper instructions.I know some great plumbers that know exactly what they're doing and would have the pamphlets on them before they even start and follow them. It's just common sense.I've said this a million times before and I'll keep saying it. If I didn't lay out for a waste line and a beam was right there in the center, I would be down there in 2 seconds to fix it. All the plumber has to do is call the GC or Builder and I would be there. This doesn’6t happen because I always lay out for them. If I’m not sure of something I always call the GC and tell him to get the plumber down so that I will adjust my joists to accommodate anything he needs. It’s that simple.But no, they will just cut away a joist and destroy it out of pure stupidity. Now all their plumbing has to be ripped out so the joists can be fixed.They will say that they can't wait for the framer to get there and fix it. Well, yes you have to wait because you can't destroy the joist now can you? But they do anyway....On existing houses, they just cut and cut and cut. Why not ask the GC or Builder to call a framer in BEFORE they cut and cut, so that we can give them whatever they need to do the job right.It's just like they go in there like gang busters and then worry about it later....until they see all their plumbing cut out and smashed all over the floor then they bitch and moan because now their stuff was cut out....I do not mean this for all plumbers. All this rant is for the ones who do this garbage. Just like there are framers who are hacks. They're just as bad as these plumbers.Joe Carola
easy there, Joe. That line of mine was for humour. I'll romp and stomp on a hack plumber same as you. Nothing I hate worse than to see my beautiful work destroyed by a sawsall with a dumb plumber attached to the handle
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>> That line of mine was for humour. <<Piffin,I know that is was, I was just ranting about these idiots. There are a gazillion threads on plumbers doing this, and also a gazillion conversations about this on job sites. It makes no sense. When the framer comes back to fix the plumbers screw up and rips all there copper and pvc out and throws it in the dumpster, then the plumbers bitch amd moan when they're 100% wrong, but it's okay that they can rip apart the framing and we should accept this.Joe Carola
Thanks for the reply. No Im not the contractor just a friend of the owner.
I thought that the distance between hole should be 2x the diameter of the hole and you should not cut the web down to the flange. <<
Where did you get that thought from? Are you the GC? If so, you should have all the information also and you should've given it to the plumber. There’s no excuse for this stuff to happen.
The Manufactures web site.
So you already had the answer before you asked here?BTW, who is the manufacturer on this? Which size and type?
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No, I didn't have the answer. I new more than I thought. I went online after suggestions from this thread. I will post the information about size and manufacture later.
Maybe I shouldexplain abit of what I mean by types and sizes.The top and bottom chords of these joists are eithe rmade of solid but finger-jointed softwood, or they are engineered lumber laminated with glue in several layers.Then the same elements might be anywhere from 1-5/8 up to 3-1/2" wide. The wider ones of course offer more strength for the same depth and length ratio.Then the center web can be3/8" or 1/2" thick...The type or model designation should also be obvious.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,You ready for this?The GC I framed an addition just called me and said that the inspector for the framing just left and he passed it but told the GC that he had to go around and put all the nailers in.With that, I said, "What the F##K is he talking about?". The GC told me that the PLUMBER knock out all the nailers wherever he need to put his lines in. I asked how many and he said 10.As my HEAD EXPLODED OFF while I was driving when he told me that and I called the plumber every name in the book, I told him that if I go there to put the nailers in at a very high cost, that I will rip out every single pipe and throw them in the dumpster, or he can do it and deduct every dime it cost him for his labor and material.The GC laughed and told me that he will put them back in. No excuse for these PIECE OF SH!T PLUMBERS to do this!!!!!!!To all you so called plumbers out there. II won’t put my joists in your way. The wood is there for a F##KEN REASON, drill through it just like you drill through a stud or a joist even if you can't do that right, DON’T KNOCK THE WOOD OUT!!!!!Joe Carola
Edited 10/24/2006 6:00 pm ET by Framer
Joe, I had the same crap happen to me. Plumbers come in and instead of drilling thru deadwood and fireblocks, they knowck them out of the way.Builder calls me to come back and put in deadwood and fireblocks, I tell him that was done as I built the walls and installed the joists....makes me wanna punch someone....
>>I had the same crap happen to me. Plumbers come in and instead of drilling thru deadwood and fireblocks, they knowck them out of the way.<<John,When this happens the framer should just go back and rip all their pipe out and throw in in the dumpster. That's being courteous because when these idiots rip our framing out they just leave it on the floor.I work on a lot of homes doing remodeling and additions and there's always plumbing in the way of what I have to do. The simple and most logical thing I do or the GC does is call the plumber in and have him move the plumbing out of the way. I would never just rip plumbing out of the way unless the plumber stopped by and told me everything was dead and don't worry about anything that it's all coming out anyway.It's that simple!Joe Carola
Boy you sound like a blast to work around.
Lets see if I have this straight----- a plumber asks you if it's ok to drill in a certain location, you blow up with how the phuck would I know go look at the specs.
A plumber or his apprentice knocks out some blocking, instead of being proffessional & puting it back & back charge the plumber, you just rip out his plumbing ( which is illegal by the way) & altering plumbing without a liscense can get a hefty fine from the state.
Are you sure you're a framer & not an iron worker.
<GD&R>When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
>> Boy you sound like a blast to work around. <<Why, because I'm telling a plumber how to do their own own job?>> Lets see if I have this straight----- a plumber asks you if it's ok to drill in a certain location, you blow up with how the phuck would I know go look at the specs. <<This is what I said, "I will be on a job sometimes still finishing up some framing and sometimes a plumber will ask me where he can drill the holes and I will tell him nothing at all where to do so and tell him to get the literature on it because that's not my job to drill holes in I-joists. I just install them."Where did I blow up and say, "what the phuck?">> A plumber or his apprentice knocks out some blocking, instead of being proffessional & puting it back & back charge the plumber, you just rip out his plumbing ( which is illegal by the way) & altering plumbing without a liscense can get a hefty fine from the state. <<Ripping out framing is illegal also!Why don't you so called plumbers act professional and stop ripping out framing and drilling holes where your not supposed too???Are you F###ING KIDDING ME???Besides, read my post. I said that the framers should start ripping out the plumbing; I didn't say that I do. I won’t lower myself to a piss poor plumber’s level!If you a good plumber and don't do all the things I mentioned than you have nothing to worry about. So what are you defending theses idiots for?What's the matter, you wouldn't like it if someone ripped out your plumbing, but its okay to rip out the framing? Are you just a dumb as the plumbers that do this stuff, or are you just trying to defend these stupid plumbers? Why would you defend these idiots? I wouldn't defend a hack framer!I'm man enough to blast my own trade for being hacks, why aren't you man enough to do the same?>> Are you sure you're a framer & not an iron worker. <<Are you sure your not one of theses a$$hole plumbers that rip apart framing?All I'm talking about are the plumbers that rip apart framing for no reason. How can you defend that?? HOW??Joe Carola
Edited 10/24/2006 10:18 pm ET by Framer
Ease up there dude
look at my post right above my tag line
<GD&R>
Ya seemed to be going a bit overboard, but then again I could be misunderstanding the whole damn thing.
Defend hacks? LOL I have bought many cases of booze to buy off GC's for some extra framing that got cut out of the way.
Anyways I was just pickin on ya When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
>> Ya seemed to be going a bit overboard, but then again I could be misunderstanding the whole damn thing. <<I'm not overboard at all. I'm not bashing all plumbers. Read what I'm talking about and you'll see. I try to work with everyone, especially plumbers and I'm sick of hearing about plumbers and seeing them doing this stuff. It makes no sense.It's weird! It's like the guys that do this, when they see the lumber, they act like a termite and just start eating away at it and destroying it. I don't get it.Read my post to Piffin about the call I got today that the plumbers ripped out 10 of my sheetrock nailers to put there pipes in instead of drilling threw them. WHY???1)If a beam is in the way of a waste line on an existing house, why not call the GC and have him bring the framer down BEFORE you drill into it or just cut them out of the way?2) Why rip sheetrock nailers out?3) Why rip fire blocking out?4) Why rip out the solid blocking in between the joists above a bearing wall?5) Why drill holes 1/2 up from the bottom of a 2x10 floor joist?6) Why drill holes in I-joists threw the bottom or top of the I-joists?7) Why drill holes in I-joists without the directions for that brand I-joists telling where to drill holes?8)Why get mad at a framer if he ripped out your copper lines and pvc when you just ripped apart and ruined his framing so that he can fix what you just ruined?9) If the framer did move a joist out of the way for a waste line and then the toilet location was changed and the was a joist in the way, why not call the framer first so he can header the framing off for you BEFORE you blast threw the joist and ruin them?10) Why do plumbers do all the above?I didn’t see this in <GD&R> your last post.What does that mean?Joe Carola
Hey Joe, <G,D, &R> means the post is meant to be humorous. Relax, the man agrees with you. So do I. Take a deep breath and let it go. There will always be hacks in every field. Impossible to avoid them all.Bill
>> the man agrees with you. <<Bill,I realized that when he said he was just picking on me. My last post to him wasn't directed at him or accusing him of doing those things. Those were quetions that I'm sure have been asked and and I'd love to here the answers too.I've asked plumbers why they do this stuff and they believe or not will say that,"what am I going to do, wait for the framer to get here and fix this, I don't have time to do that, I have to get the job done."Then I'll just ask getting the job done when it's the wrong thing to do and your job will have to be ripped out and cost everyone more money with time and material to fix makes sense?I would've let it go until I got the phone call yesterday and was told that the plumbers ripped out 10 nailers. I'll let ot go now unless someone here makes a post defending them.Joe Carola
ok first <GD&R> humor & sarcasm---- actual word to word definition I can't remember.
I didn't know you actually wanted answers to these things, but ok I'll give it a shot.
But first let me tell ya when I get to work around wood framing is rare & a treat.
My jobs are mainly "I" beams, bar joist, pandeck, & concrete.
1--- it's change order time---- that's how ya make money these days.
2. shouldn't rip them out I have had them go flying all over when my holehog got hung up.---- seeing a nailer that is nailed in is an oddity to me --- cept for home projects & side jobs----- my jobs usually means a steel stud just floating in the track.
3 & 4--- I can't explain stupidity.
5 & 6--- again change order either for me to do a complete re-route or for the framer to build a soffit to house the plumbing--- I have seen both
7--- OK this one I'm guilty of--- not for waste lines, but I have drilled for water where I wasn't suppose to.
8---If someone is gonna rip out someone elses work Yeah I bet they would get mad if someone rips out their work----- not saying I agree with it, but if a trade doesn't take the time to do it right I don't think their gonna take the time to calmy think why someone ripped out their work.
9--- That's just a hack who doesn't want to do it right or get paid for extras that are not in the bid.
10---- Why do (insert trade of choice) think they can run over every trade out there.
Hey JOE are ya Adams brother?When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
For what it's worth, I can relate to Joes frustration. I've been flabbergasted and frustrated many times by the stupidity of the plumbers and sometimes the heat guys who weild their sawzalls first before giving any consideration to the other trades.
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
Hey yeilding a sawzall is an art form.When asked why is there four engines on a 747------ "cause we couldn't fit six" a Boeing engineer
Just got back from cutting out all the plumbing and throwing it in the dumpster where the plumbers ripped out all my nailers........................;-)>>Hey JOE are ya Adams brother? <<No. If I was I'd have him do a show about plumbers....;-) He spells his name different. Two L's.Joe Carola
When this happens the framer should just go back and rip all their pipe out and throw in in the dumpster
Of course we don't rip it all out because that would set the builder back a couple more days and then the builder would be peeved at us.
I'm thinking that every framer should have a warning sticker that they leave on the jobsite. It should give their phone numbers for consultation regarding the removal of any and all parts currently installed. It should also explain the 4 hour minimum charge for going back and re-installing parts.
Maybe I'll print some up if I do any more roughs for builders.
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
OH..and it is so much more fun to put a piece of wood around a piece of plumbing toenailing from below. specially when the guy could have drilled thru the wood lol.
Do you need a hug Joe?
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
>> Do you need a hug Joe? <<Yes..... I need a group hug.... those poopiehead plumbers.....;-)Joe Carola
Unless I missed it, you didn't give us the manufacturer of the I-joists. I think they all have websites, and you can download installation guides there. The place you bought them from should also be able to come up with a booklet also.If you have trouble getting info from either of those sources, post back and I'll see if I can help ya out. (As long as you have the brand name)
I was making love to this girl and she started crying. I said, "Are you going to hate yourself in the morning?" She said, "No, I hate myself now." [Rodney Dangerfield]
I-Joists, and other engineered wood products, are generally made to standards published by the American Plywood Association http://www.apawood.org . Their site has many downloadable, free specifications- including one on where to drill I-joists.