Maybe this is a “Shed” thread but…
Like many of us, I was blown away by DP’s recent “Add On” thread. Some of you know him better than I do, but I’m always curious how a guy his age has amassed his skill set. So, whatdyasay Brian? How/where/when did you learn? And in a general sense, if someone is starting out as a builder that aspires to your level of craftsmanship, what would be your advice/pet peeves/favorite tips?
Hey, you got nothing better to do, right? 😉
PaulB
Replies
I second your notion!
DP is my hero!
He truely is a class act.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?
Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
How do you think he would have approached your place?
heh heh Now that's funny right there!
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Click here to visit the beginning of Breaktime
With a match.View Image
LOL..you ain't got the hair for restotation work, it takes a special breed of insanity..the other breed is FRAMERS.
Good post man, you really spell it out well.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Praobly woulda burnt it or dozed it..LOL.
As I should have.
Hey, one puppy gone as of just now..5 to go..pick one.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.
Geez, I'm honored Paul. Don't know that I deserve the attention, but I'll honor your questions. It's a rainy day and I don't feel like doing office work anyway.
First off.... I'm really not all that young anymore. I turn 35 next week. I think I'm considered young cuz I don't look all that old and also because I was 25 when I first started hanging around here. Like most 25 year olds I thought I knew it all and that the way I had been doing things was the only way to do 'em. I got put in my place a lot at first here and rightfully so. I'm glad I was stubborn enough to keep coming back for more because what I've learned here on this site has been invaluable to me and my business.
Anyway.... I didn't really have any formal education in construction or even a real apprenticeship. The best thing I have going for me is that building houses is something I'm truly interested in. So it's easy for me to spend free time reading and learning about better ways to do things or just playing with numbers to get my head around the math a little better. I really just learned, and continue to learn, by 'doing'. I spend an awful lot of time just thinking about ways to build stuff.
I've only ever worked for one other framer other than myself. I came to him green, just looking to fill a winter as I had a seasonal job. I was 25 and kinda wandering through life without any real direction. I took to building right away. He wasn't a great teacher, but taught me enough to get me going. He threw me into the fire way too early and had me running a crew with about six months of framing experience. In my ignorance I built some barely adequate #### while working in a development that catered to selling barely adequate ####. It was a nice match. LOL.....
But I'm a pretty quick learner if I'm interested in a subject... and I was very interested in becoming a good framer. I loved being a framer and it became my identity at a time in my life when I really didn't have one. I loved and still love everything about it.... the big trucks, the heavy equipment, the fast pace, the hard work, the tools, the big hammers, the challenge of working outside year round, the danger, the dirt, blood, sweat, and occasional tears.... and most importantly.... the sense of accomplishment when you look in the rear view mirror on the way home.
In my first year I found this site and began devouring all the information I could. I subscribed to FHB, JLC, Tools of the Trade, Remodeling, Builder, and This Old House magazines. I bought books and read them over and over. The book that stands out most in my mind is Will Holladay's "A Roof Cutter's Secrets". I've read it over and over and still only understand about half of it, but it helped me develop my own system of figuring and cutting roofs and I believe it's important to develop your own system rather than trying to memorize someone else's. Roof cutting can be very complicated and you really have to understand a roof to be good at it, I think. A lot of roof cutting isn't about memorizing a formula or something... it's about being able to work through a roof system and it's intersections. I haven't mastered it by any stretch... and don't know that I ever will..... but I've learned enough that I'm no longer intimidated by any roof I come across. At this point it's about becoming more efficient in my techniques and calcs. But that's for another thread.
So I'm pretty much self-taught. I worked for my old boss for about 5 years honing my skills. I got better as the jobs he gave me got more complicated. We were never really a "high end" framing outfit but I got to do a bit of everything. He's an interesting character..... worthy of his own thread someday. He's not a great framer, per say. But he's the type of guy who isn't scared of anything, is tough as nails, stubborn as an ox, and can manage to build just about anything he sets his mind to.... but it wasn't always efficient or pretty.... it was just 'done'. In the end, he was a better carpenter than business man and his business began sliding away from him for a variety of reasons. Money was always an issue at the end. I'd go weeks without getting paid and then get a big check when he could swing it. I always got paid eventually, but pay days were getting to be further and further apart. I was about to get married and take on a mortgage and it just didn't seem like such a safe bet anymore. So I took a gamble and started my own business.
At first it was just myself and one other guy (who is still with me and probably always will be). I had my MA builder's license and thought maybe I wanted to be a GC. I took whatever I could get for work..... small additions, a ton of decks, a few kitchens, a few baths, etc. It didn't take long for me to figure out that I really still wanted to be a framer and GC'ing wasn't for me. So I started hussling bigger and bigger framing jobs and tried to build a name. As the jobs grew, my crew grew, and my arsenal of tools and equipment grew. I went through a ton of guys trying to put together a decent crew. All the while learning more and more as I went along and better positioning myself for better jobs. I never burnt bridges, never left a job incomplete, and tried to never leave a customer unhappy. I took (and occasionally still take) financial beatings on a job before I'd leave a customer unhappy or a job incomplete. I take a lot of pride in the fact that my guys have been handed a full paycheck every Friday since day one regardless of my own financial situation.
The thing that has helped me progress more than anything else is probably the fact that I'm my own biggest critic. I'm brutal on myself and am rarely satisfied with what I've accomplished. It's a character defect, for sure, but it has helped drive me to become a better carpenter and a better businessman. I beat myself up for mistakes, always feel I could be working harder, constantly compare my work to others' work, and just generally have a hard time seeing when "enough" is "good enough". When I'm not working I feel like I'm a lazy slob and when I am working I don't feel as though I'm doing enough. (We could have a psychology lesson later and talk about my old man sometime if you'd like). If I feel a project is going to sh2t, then I feel like I'm going to sh2t. If a job is going great... I feel great. It's a little sick, but it's the truth.
But I'm the exact opposite with my (current) guys. They constantly impress me and I tell them as much. I thank them every day before I get in the truck and every time I hand them a check. They are warriors. I think it's this combination that makes them as good as they are. They see me killing myself trying to get it "right" and constantly giving the credit and praise to them..... I think it drives them to work even harder for me. Sure they make me crazy somedays.... shoot I make myself crazy some days..... but in the end I'm extremely grateful to have them as coworkers as well as aquaintences/friends. They'll go to the wall for me, and I for them. And I take care of them to best of my ability. I over pay them, pay them when there's no work, bonus them, buy them stuff..... and it all comes back to me ten fold. I care about my guys a lot. I care about whats going on in their lives. I care about their financial futures and well-being. I'm proud of the fact that my guys trust me enough to come to me for help with the personal life and that I can make myself available to them.
Incidently, my old boss I was talking about above is my lead man now. It took a few years for the dust to settle after I left, but about a year ago we talked and set our egos aside as we knew it was best for both of us to be working together again. We always worked really well together and our skill sets compliment each other. When I'm overthinking something, he's getting it built. And when he's about to plow head on into a huge mistake or needlessly time consuming way to go about something, I'm there to explain a better, easier, faster, safer, or smarter way. He's truly like a brother to me. If I were ever in a jamb, he's the first guy I'd call and I don't have any doubt he'd be there in whatever capacity he could. I know he feels the same way about me. One of the worst days of my life was watching him fall 33' to a footing in a basement about 8 years ago. I'll never forget it as long as I live. And I'll forever be indebted to him for giving me the opportunity to make mistakes and learn how to build houses.
So that's what kinda makes me tick. I could go on and on.... I've got a lot of feeling and emotions tied up in my crew and my work. It's a little bit embarrassing, but to a large extent, my work defines me in many ways and I'd be lost with out it. But there's probably enough info here that you guys can fill in the blanks and figure out the rest.
If I had one piece of advice for someone starting out in carpentry it'd be this:
Remain teachable.
man, good post.
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Click here to visit the beginning of Breaktime
>Remain teachable.<
That needed to be repeated.
I'm sitting here applauding Brian... undoubtedly one of the best, most informative and interesting posts I've ever read here. It gives me hope that someone can start as you did, with as little formal instruction, and get to the kind of work that you are doing now... maybe there's hope for me after all ;)
Thanks for taking the time to write all that, it should be required reading for newcomers.PaulB
Thanks for taking the time to write all that
Thanks for asking Paul.View Image
As a card carrying memeber of the never satisfied with my own work club,
I appreciate the honesty in your post and the advise you've dished out. It confirms
the notion that you have to "want it" bad enough and a good mentor is priceless.
Take care,
D
You are one of the guys that make the trip here worth it. I hope you still come here when you are teaching science. I told you before when you speak, I listen.
Well, I have said it before but you are one of my most admired on the board. Always looking for new information, make your own decisions, are honest about your mistakes, and obviously a hard worker and solid businessman. But what really impresses me is that you are all of the above at 35. Good job. DanT
Thanks for sharing-good read
Greg from Connecticut
Great story!
But yer still a young whippersnapper compared to most of the rest of us. I'm 19 years older than you.
But if it makes you feel better, you are an old man compared to young AndyFew. Heck, to him, I'm practically a fossil.
Good points......all of them.
35 is young kid, don't let your bones tell you otherwise.
You have done a lot in 10 years, and should be proud.
Now enough of this back-patting cr#%, get your lazy a%$ back to work, you loafer you.
;-)
Diesel,
I just wanted to add my appreciation and respect for the work that you do and say thanks for sharing it on this forum.
It is inspiring to see the work that you do and how you take care of your employees. It blew me away to see that addition done in only 15 days!
I see some similarities in your experiences with my own situation (similar age and no formal construction education, just learning as I go) that make me believe it is possible to be successful in this business and that motivates me to try to get to that next level.
Thanks again for your contributions, and your advice of "always remain teachable", very wise words indeed.
DP,I don't want to turn this into another gushy thread. Got one of those already ;) But...You are the real deal, brother. If you call yourself a carpenter, then I am proud to say I'm one too. I'll be thinking about that post this year as I start my business.Thanks,Kit Technique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Wow. Great post, truly inspiring.
Naive but refreshing !
Brian,
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
You have a story to tell that can (should) be shared with a much broader audience than here.
Much of the reason for that is your skill at articulating your thoughts in writing.
Thanks for sharing. That one is going in the file.
Eric
[email protected]
Thanks everyone.... I really appreciate the support. But don't go getting the idea that I'm some kind of superhero or something though.... I'm just a dude with a crew. I make my fair share of mistakes (and then some) and have as many bad days as everybody else.
I've underbid jobs, overbid jobs, hired the wrong guys, and fired the wrong guys. I get in bad moods, bend nails, yell at the wrong guy, and forget to take out the trash. I've put the right LVL in the wrong place and the wrong LVL in the right place. I've cut rafters that don't fit, studs that were too short, and broken vinyl windows with a misplaced hammer swing. I once had a tarp blow off and the rain wrecked someone's kitchen. I sometimes forget to return phone calls, still have to chase money, and procrastinate with paperwork. I spit tobacco on the deck, swear like a drunken sailer, and like my music loud. There's guys out there that think I'm an azzhole and others that probably think I'm a hack.
But I'm proud to be a carpenter and I just keep trying to do the best I can just like the rest of you. Thanks for taking an interest in my story.View Image
"I spit tobacco on the deck, swear like a drunken sailer, and like my music loud. There's guys out there that think I'm an azzhole and others that probably think I'm a hack."Brian, I'm glad you posted all that you were sounding like a bit of a H-mo.... ;>)No doubt you are the real deal. Sorry you blew off lunch in Providence.Lemme know if yer interested in a deck in Stratham, NH (My best bud's).Jim
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Brian, I'm glad you posted all that you were sounding like a bit of a H-mo.... ;>)
Would it make you feel any better if I knocked you out next time I saw you and told you to go F yourself? Cuz that can be arranged as well. :)
View Image
Edited 5/4/2008 11:34 am ET by dieselpig
Nah, but if you build my bud's deck maybe I'll come up and be your (unpaid) FNG for a day. If you see a hole in your schedule let me know.Many of the same things that helped push you out on your own are pushing me to do the same. Jim
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Wow!
Thanks for sharing this and the picts from you Add-on. Inspirational.
I just wish more people had your character defect.
:)
Leland
Impossible is an opinion.
Thanks for asking the question we all wondered. I just assumed DP was an
outstanding apprentice or 2nd gen framer.
First 3 letters of assumed ;)
-D