Hey All,
We’re considering using SIPs–have had an underwhelming experience talking to Winterpanel (rep was taciturn, contradicted info on website, failed to call back with a bid) and no follow through from the regional rep for Insulspan, but, we are interested in hearing if anyone has figured out a method to avoid all the redundancy of building with SIPs–e.g. using timber frames and then treating SIPS as expensive infill, or roofing with SIPs but then having to build cold roofs above them, or paying extra for finished interior surfaces (usually wood panel), but then losing the structural component.
My goal is to build a SIP house with:
a metal or archi shingle roof straight on the panels
sided with hardiplank (without more than strapping for sub prep)
prefinished drywall or plaster directly onto the interior OSB.
If we can meet those criteria, then it seems like SIPs become worth the expense and offer a truly value-added method. Without at least some of those things as high-quality options, I feel like I’m really having to work to keep them as a viable, cost effective choice.
Any thoughts, especially on the plaster on OSB strategy, would be most welcome.
Cheers,
Jamie
Replies
Some co's offer SIP panels with OSB on one side and drywall on the other. Or you can just screw drywall to the inside of the panel before erecting it. As for having a 'cold' roof we just installed the shingles directly to the deck after putting down ice/water shield or tar paper. Don't know why you can't do that? If it is because the manufacturer says the warranty will be voided then look for a different manufacturer. IN the same vein we are putting cedar shingles directly over tar paper on the outside of the panels.
I actually built a timberframe, but that is what I wanted, and the SIP panels were not infills but a complete wrap around the frame. It is perfectly possible to build a SIP house without a timberframe, it just needs to be designed that way. In fact my Timber guy built and lived in one for a couple of years while doing his own frame/house. It may mean reinforcing joins between panels on the roof with 2x8's to stiffen the roof, but that shou dbe able to be engineered by either the SIP company or an independent engineer.
Check out http://www.sipweb.com for a good discussion about this topic rather than me repeating what they say. I'm pretty much convinced that they are the way to go for exterior walls. I will use trusses for the roof with lots of ceiling insulation = same performance at much better price
I built (am building?) a timberframe with SIPs as an outer shell. I got the same response from Winterpanel - like they could care less if they got your business. I bought my panels from Branch River Plastics in Rhode Island - best price and the furthest away from me (I am in VT).
You can put metal on a SIP, directly. You can also put shingles directly on a SIP but you risk losing your warranty. I believe Certainteed and Elk warranty their shingles on a hot roof as long as you use their underlayment. I decided that if I ever had roof problems or had a tree fall on the house and pop shingles, or some other minor misadventure, that the cold roof, the extra layer of sheathing, provided that much more insurance. Plus, I think the shingles will last a LOT longer, and it's easier to replace a sheet of plywood than to try to replace a piece of a panel of your roof system fails.
I am also using Hardiplank, with 1/4" thick strapping over 15# felt, and the bottom 12" of the wall and the bottom of the panel is wrapped in Ice & Water shield and a 3' band of Obdyke's Home Slicker. This will provide air flow, a good drainage plane, and again - the "insurance" factor.
We placed 16' sheets of blueboard (plaster base drywall) directly on the frame before putting on the panels. I was told not to order "nailbase" panels - basically, OSB on the outside and only drywall on the inside, because of potential damage. After the process we went through to get them off the truck, move them around, cut them and put them on the frame, the advice was dead-on. The upside to the drywall over OSB on the inside is that I can attach anything anywhere - pictures, shelves, you name it. I could probably hang a small car if the molly bolts were strong enough. The sheets are simply tacked to the frame with a dozen drywall nails (not screws) and then screwed in the field inside. One horizontal seam and a couple dozen screwheads per sheet - interior finishes will be a dream and the walls are dead flat. I may even experiment with some veneer plaster in some rooms.
SIPS are very economical for what you get - as long as your foundation and deck are nearly perfect, and you make sure the panel company knows that they are using the panels as the structural component and not a cover for a timber frame. If you are not using a frame, I would look into a precut package, where all your panels are cut to size in the factory and the door and window openings are all premade. Decide on your openings beforehand and be firm on them, although it's reasonably easy to make openings larger in a SIP home,or make additional openings. We are going to put a couple of skylights and two more windows in the walls now that the frame is up and the panels are on, and it's easy to do. Not so easy (but still possible) with a stick framed house. My SIP package was just over $20k, and that enclosed a 1-1/2 story, 2800 SF house.
My SIP package was just over $20k, and that enclosed a 1-1/2 story, 2800 SF house.I'm still sitting on the fence about sips(quality,cost)But my ears kinda of perked up when you said 1-1/2 story house.That is what I want to build for my house.Did that price include a precut package or was that doing everything in the field? What did labor run to install or did youdo that yourself?Do you have any pictures you would care to share here?I don't recall if you have already done so.
20k for the full-length panels and a pallet of OSB splines, no precuts. We cut everything in the field, angles, windows and doors, using a 16" Makita saw and a hot knife. I bought foam and panel screws separately from the package, and I rented a Lull to put them up. Total cost for everything, panels, extra materials, forklift rental and labor was probably right on $30k. I pre-sized all my windows to fit Anderson 400 series rough openings - the windows will be in next week and they should just drop right in.
The foam we used was off-the-shelf foam cans from Touch-n-Foam, I bought four cases of cans from several different Wal-Marts and it was about $200. The panel companies quoted me anywhere from $600 to a thousand for a similar but essentially identical product. The screws I got from an online retailer - again, cheaper than the panel company for some reason. You obviously wouldn't need panel screws if you weren't using a timber frame as a sub-assembly.
I'm figuring, by the time I'm done, I'll have just over $60/square foot into my house.
Thanks for that Only 60.00 a square foot?That is pretty awesome, you must be doing quite a bitof that yourself instead of subbing out to keep your costsso low.
What I'm doing (or have done) myself:
Foundation
Septic system
Floor slab and radiant tubing
Outdoor wood boiler
First floor joists and deck
Cut and milled timbers for frame
Kitchen cabinets
Rough wiring
Drywall
Tile
Kichen cabinets
Paint & finishes
Interior trim
Subbing out:
Panel installation
Timber frame joinery and raising
Windows and doors
Interior framing
Plumbing
Major electrical
Roofing
Siding
Excavation
Some of the stuff I've subbed out, I've assisted the crew, or done a small part myself. Some of the stuff I've done myself I've hired a consultant or assistant to give me a hand. Good example is the floor slab - the guys who put up the frame helped me lay the mesh and tubing and we got it done in under half a day. I have a customer who works for a concrete forming company, he agreed to work for trade and bring along his tools and a power trowel when we poured the floor, so instead of having a four-man crew do the floor, it was my Dad and I and the concrete guy, he basically screeded and ran the trowel a bit, and we did a lot of wheeling and shoveling and I was running the trowel about half the time.
Thanks for the details and great story of your project!I am bummed winterpanel wasn't more helpful as I really liked their bowed roof panels for their 1 1/2 story "bow cape"--I've never liked Dutch Barn gambrel roofs aesthetically, but these arcing SIP panels seemed to offer nice lines and more effective interior spaces. Oh Well!affixing drywall before raising wall panels seems like a good idea--did it complicate or weaken any joints for interior walls by having that extra material between anchors and solid framing?As for plastering interior walls straight onto the OSB?
That is pretty impressive.Know you HAFTA share pictures w/us. :-)