I am still preparing to do a complete remodel on the kitchen in my condo, and wanted to get some opinions about a particular maker of ready to assemble cabinets…I have a budget I need to abide to if I am going to sell the place and make up my equity.
Has anyone used cabinets from Scherr’s Cabinet and Doors, a company I learned of from the pages of FHB? I really like the idea of being able to avoid a cash sucking retailer to get a set of cabinets that I can put together and maybe save a chunk of change if possible. I would like to know whether the quality of their cabinets is any good and whether the prices are worth the effort of buying site unseen. Additionally, I would like to get anyone’s thoughts on what pitfalls to avoid if I do go ahead with this concept; keeping in mind that I know many people have certain expectations on how a cabinet should be made and that I (think I) know how their cabinets are constructed and willing to accept that certain “style.” Finally, does anyone know about any other makers of cabinet kits that I could consider in this endeavor?
Thanks for any feedback anyone can provide!!!!
Replies
Cash sucking retailers?????
Whatcha mean by that? Does that mean you dont want to pay a retailer for their work and your calling them names? Before I ream you I'd like an explantation because maybe "I'm" off base here but I got bad vibe from your termonology.
First of all kits are fine and I personally dont use them. KD's. The reason I dont use them is because its just a cheap way out of a quality kitchen. In a condo, that may be your preference which I can understand (sorta). When you do K.D's (knock downs) its very time consuming and "almost" not worth the effort IMO. If you yourself are going to put all the cabs together and your a DYSer then I'm bettin' its gonna take you a real long time, so unless you have plenty of time on your hands and thats what you want to do then go for it. Its way more time consuming then you may think (what isnt?). There may be instances where I might use a company like that but not for an entire kitchen. If the drawers are all dovetailed then you probably have a good company but if theyre just pinned together stay clear. Good luck.
Be well
NAmaste'
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
I tend to agree with your conclusions/advice regarding the knockdown cabinets. Very time consuming process for the inexperienced. I think a person is better off hiring a quality cabinet shop if they want really good stuff or buying stock cabinets otherwise which range in quality from absolute junk to decent stuff. Maybe there is a cabinet manufacturer out there building really top of the line stuff but I haven't seen it. Most are put together with hot glue and staples. All depends on the budget and personal taste I guess.
Mark
Andy, ya jumped his #### for a harmless comment like that? I'm going to take it as meaning "why pay HD or whoever a markup on something I can order direct from the manufacturer?"
If you had the option of buying that new washing machine directly from Maytag, would you cut the local appliance dealer in for 15 or 25 or 40% just cuz you're a nice guy? I know you're temporarily rich til the ghosts in that old house clean you out, but are you that generous? :)
Joe H
Joe,
I agree with Andy, and so should anyone who is in business for themselves ! If you want to save a buck, thats fine, we all do it....but don't bad-mouth a legitimate business for making a profit.
Bill Koustenis
Well Mr. Bill, I still don't see it your way. He's asking if a product he has seen advertised in FHB is worth buying, rather than going through a local middleman.
I have to make a profit to stay in business, so does whoever he is going to buy his cabinets from. Maybe you don't like his choice of words, but that doesn't mean he's wrong to want to avoid paying a markup. I deal with suppliers who I would just love to cut out of the middle, just so as to not have to deal with them. Actual first choice would be to throw them under a bus, but just out of the deal would be acceptable.
There are many reasons to order the cabs through someone local, but if Nan (?) is willing to go through the hassel of sending them back two or three times when they don't fit, the finish doesn't match, they're damaged by the shipper, or whatever, that's his choice. He says he is (he thinks) familiar with the quality and is willing to live with it to fit his budget.
Again, a poor choice of words in an attempt at humor perhaps, but still a legitimate question. Are Scheer's Cabinets & Doors worth the money? I don't know, I've never seen them, but I did look at their website, http://www.scherrs.com/ nd it looks like they are worth a look. They're in North Dakota, long way from me, but maybe next door to him.
Joe H
Joe,
I dont think you read my post ??? I never said anything about the cabinets. I also said there was nothing wrong with trying to save a buck.... I only said that it is not fair to badmouth someone for trying to make a buck. Thats it period.
Hey Bill..dont try and talk to a moron.
Be well
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey Joe.....what I was refering to was KD's and I wasn't jumping down anyones throat.
If you think thats jumping down someones throat let me jump down yours first and foremost. I wasnt talking about a manufacturor. I was specifically speaking about CHEAP KD's you imbecile. I was talking about quality. And you know I'm RICH? ?????What a jerk you are. You know NOTHING about me so pick yer pants up, wipe yourself and go so sleep you moron. If I know nothing else I DO know quality. I also said KD's DO have their place. More then half the time I have built my own cabs with care and love. What kinda hole did you crawl out of? Go back in it you self serving judgemental scrotom breathed duche bucket.
Be well
Namaste.....lol
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 11/2/2002 10:52:15 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Andy-
Chill out, dude... take a little pill; or something.
=====Zippy=====
Hmm>>> "What kinda hole did you crawl out of? Go back in it you self serving judgemental scrotom breathed duche bucket."
"Be well"
I love the be well, that is a nice touch.
Yo Andy, you off your meds? Mean Saturday night drunk?
I was joking about your temporary riches, however you have mentioned dozens of times how much you were selling your old house for. You have told us all over and over about your wonderful neighborhood where all the "Celebrities" live yada yada yada. Who cares? You're impressed with those people? Billy Joel, you've brought him up a number of times. Is he your good bud? Or you just want to make sure we all know what a class bunch of neighbors you have.
Guess what a sshole, I'm not impressed with your neighbors, your 322 year old crib or your life experience operating your school. You think your s**t don't stink? Guess again.
If I think of something else I'll let you know. Joe H
Joe
Doesnt matter HOW MUCH I sold my house for. Took me five years to build it full time. You have no idea what my mortgage is or what my expenses are. Or how hard I've worked. I'm way far from wealthy and never claimed to be. I made more money one year doing a spec house that I sold for $125,000 then I did on my biggie I just sold. As for Billy Joel .he lived here when he was a kid. He was raised around here before he ever "made it big". I only mentioned that my brother because its part of the history round here.
Actually I think you better get back on your Prozak cause your joking around as you claim has a hint of BS attached to it which makes it not funny but then again I'm sure yer the life of the party. Stop following my life so closely..yer scarin' me.View Image LOL
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
First of all, thank you for your valuable advice about quality cabinets, that was the type of information that I am looking for. If I had my druthers, time, and sufficient experience I would build my own from scratch and be more than happy. But I am fairly sure that I have just enough time to put some kits together, since it doesn't involve the very noisy, time-consuming process of milling the wood--neighbors in a condo don't like the sound of a table saw, no matter how wonderful it is to me, at midnight.
Cash sucking retailers are exactly what they are. Did you know that an item purchased at retail is worth FULLY 20% of the price you pay???? Now I can definately support that kind of price for a mom and pop shop that works their bums off for their minor 20% they make after their cash sucking distributors skim their share. But for a Big Box, you have got to be kidding me...If I order cabinets through Bone Depot or Blowe's, I would be taking the cabinet list and telling the "designer" I want this, this, and this box, and they would still be bl*wing me for 80% of the price. The new landscape of retail in America is a tale of sellers who develop a "relationship" with a manufacturer, and both parties bypass a distributor, but still sell junk at the same price... Ever hear the tale of why Ryobi is now "Exclusive" to Bone Depot?
Don't take me as contentious, it is not my meaning. I'm a socialist, so I believe this stuff!!!!!!!!!
NAN
It'd be insanity to buy cabs from HD. I know from experiance that say..Kitchen Maid Cabs are cheaper at HD then another kitchen place around here but the carcasses that HD carries are 1/2" thick vs. 3/4" thick from the kitchen shop. HD are total rip off scam artists if you ask me. Remember also what I said in a previous post about.....the quality of the Kd's you buy. Look for dovetails joints in the drawer design for starters. I had noticed in the Kitchens and BAth edition this month in FHB a company that sold KD's ( I forget their name) with a picture of their doors. They looked extremely well constructed. Not sure of the costs and that is I'm sure a big consideration so check em all out. They all have websites which sure makes it easy. Good luck
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Before you condemn the KD cabinets, they have there place and use. Condos and appartments are much easier to access with the flat pack. Things that fail first on a cabinet are the hinges, drawer slides and doors. But pick the right door and it will last. Mills pride from HD is fine if its assembled with care and a little glue added in the same places as the prebuilt units. When you think about it all cabinets are flat pack at some stage! If money is tight go with the flat pack. if you can't find a door style you like then order just cabinets and get the doors from a door only Co.
I have to disagree that mills pride kd's are a decent cabinet. I have assembled them and hung them following the directions. They are not going to last any kind of use by most families. If you are cash strapped and have to have new cabinets I can see it if you plan to assemble them yourself. I have carried both up steps and either is not a bowl of cherries to do.
cash sucking retailer, I like that term. Talk about not be PC. let the truth be freed. Sound like some of my close knit group of retailer here. Cash succking retailer
I can see it now. Next time I,m in HD and cannot get no help. " Excuse me sir, yes you, the cash sucking retailer, can you get that off the shelf for me."
I would be banned for life.
I would be banned for life
From HD?
You say that like it would be a bad thing!!
T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Edited 11/3/2002 7:32:04 AM ET by Mr T
In my own experiance, having installed both Mills Pride at one end of the price scale and Woodmode heading to the other. Also looking at the "builders grade" cabinets that came with my present house. The Mills Pride product is a big step up from the builders grade but still has a way to go to match Woodmode. But Woodmode's main strength is in the door and cabinet finish.(paint etc.) Like most things in life a small step in quality=a big step in price. In answer to the original post, you got to go look and check them out.
<<<Like most things in life a small step in quality=a big step in price. In answer to the original post, you got to go look and check them out.>>>>
Nigel.....EXACTLY my sentiments. I've done dozens of Mills Pride KD's. Theyre pretty junky if you ask me but for the money and what the customer wants.....I put several in low end rental houses for one customer I have. after you put together your first set the rest can fly by pretty quickly. My cutomers were satisfied with them because it cost CHEAP! Looks decent but.......hunks O' junk. Home Depoop specials. I absolutly HATE HD for kitchens. The people that bought my last house said they went there to price granite counter tops. Now thats PURE insanity! They got a price of about twenty grand for the kitch installed (countertops)..my stone supplier did it for less then five grand and it was absolutly gorgous. HD sux....even their lightbulbs sux. They last half the time then when I get my bulbs from my electrical supply house and thats a fact!
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Attached is one of my larger Mills Pride kitchens in maple.
Try again!!
This view to the left:
Nige
Nice looking kitch. Nice work. I've installed dozens of Mills Pride cabs. I suppose to me they may look nice on the outside but at least from the ones I've seen up close and installed they just seemed really cheaply constructed. I do have to admit I've never installed their top of the line MP cabs but I cant imagine them to be a whole lot better then the lesser expensive cabs. Seems that they just try and make the faces look decent which is why I think they sell but the drawers and doors arent constructed of quality IMHO. The carcasses are real cheap as well. Don't get me wrong. Like I've said.....I've installed dozens. If thats what the people want I havent any problem with that. I just tell them the truth about what I think, give other options and do what they want. I just think that MP is one of the lowest ended "popular" KD's. I havent installed any in about three years so who knows...maybe theyve improved their product. Nice job though. Good luck
Be well
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
So Andy here's the job: Finish aside, your ideal components for a kitchen cabinet. Thickness, grade of material, type of slides etc.
Nigelusa
Depends for whom youre talking about and the budget. Lots of factors, wouldnt you say? For myself in this house I'm in now...if I had tons of time and money...planned on moving in ten years or so .....well....sooo many factors. Good question though. Kinda vague though. I have sooooo may thoughts on different styles and compositions.
I could go with solid wood carcasses or ply. Ply where its not seen such as behind the stiles and rails and next to walls and the side by sides with the solid wood where you see it....and shelving......of high quality.
If it were to be painted I might do all the trim with MDF if I was on a budget.
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Lets just say I want to stay in my new old house for..ohhhhhh about ten years. Don't care about specin' it but wanna come out ahead down the line.
Still a hard question cause what will others think that wanna buy it?
A- Will they really care about the upmost craftsmanship
B- Authenticity?
C- Some sortra budget cause they cant afford B but want part of that?
D- uhhhhhhhhh
NIG.....you really need to be more specific.
Spose in this house what I'd do is build my own Cabs........ohhhhhhhhhhh..wait one second bro.... You forget the part about the social aspect.
Neighbors and friends and family.....but most of all is my wife and what she wants. seeeeeee, yer way to vague bro. Whattya want me to think of everythingggggg???? Do a story for FHB? LOL....jus' might be...lol
OK OK.....I'd get me my shop together first off.....nutin like Norms of course cause ...well you know.
Geezzzzzzz... yer a serious ball buster dude. No specifics here?
OK OK.A "decent" half assed shop.
I'd rip up the old floor boards in my pre existing kitchen that I'm removing.Remove the hand made nails. Take the boards and mill them into stiles and rails but FIRST I'd think about NO CARCASSES as SHGLAW (member him) mentioned to me a ways back. All cabs would be like they used to be......Shelves run the length and stiles and rails are in front as I so desire. Wouldnt sand the S&R's......Maybe just finsih em off in Butchers Wax after I stain em mixing up my own stain naturally.
Hey c'mon...pretty loaded question here.. Why not just ask me to write an article for Fine Woodworking? Probably cause I aint as good as those gents and ladies.
3/4 everything.......best lumber possible.........slides depend on the kitchen.......Pretty much the best of everything.........Which doesnt mean by the way,,,,the most expensive. Means how much of yer soul yer willing to invest.
you never said for who. I figure for my family and me but you never specified anything........
Actually ...seesm to me you love me and follow me so closely that you want me to design something for you and yer family and tell you how to
do it.......or yer goofin' on me....lol..............
Damn....what kinda dog am I gonna get.
Be well
NAmaste'
AIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I don't think I would "condemn" them, but I do want to make sure I don't waste my money. I have seen some pretty nasty stuff that comes under the name of "ready to assemble," and that is the reason why I am trying to get as much information first. I even had a contractor tell me to order a single cabinet from them and then I would know for myself, but I wanted to get a firsthand opinion first.
My friend Jack, who builds high end spec and contract homes, in this little resort town in upstate NY we both live in, had always had the same guy build his kitchen and bath cabinetry totally on site, from lumber, plywood, and hardware. Fully face-framed, 3/4" birch ply used for sides, bottoms, dividers, and stile and rail doors with plywood flat panels. I talked him into using KDs on his last job, but only for the baths and laundry room, because he had started his guy on the big kitchen part, already. It was a 5 BR, 4-1/2 bath spec, 5600 sf. We needed to compromise and do the cabinetry frameless, but we got all the upgrades we could on the boxes, in terms of drawer slides, and materials and finishes. Knotty pine veneers on the exposed cab ends, all the front edges, etc., and the best Blum hardware they had to offer. Used CabParts for the boxes and Keystone Wood Specialties for the prefinished door and drawer fronts. The CabParts order of box parts arrived a couple days ahead of the Keystone order. Assembly and installation of boxes took about a day, and the door and drawerfront fitting-out took another day. We saved Jack serious money, compared to the site built methods he had been using. We are doing it differently on his current job, materials for which arrive next week, kitchens and baths complete on this one. We used Conestoga Woodworking, which makes a KD system fully faceframed, and they are making for us an arrangement with all the openings detailed with beaded edges for inset shaker doors, 4-sided dovetailed drawer boxes, and the inside of the boxes showing maple veneer over real plywood. CabParts boxes were particleboard. We are excited to see how this one goes. In my opinion, you get a very good product and result from going the KD approach, but you need to have some skills and certain tools and a workspace apropos for the system you'll get. One needs to be able to design a cabinetry layout, getting familiar with all the terms, the 3-inch size increments, options, alternates, etc. One needs to be able to translate the design very carefully into an order for all the right components. You will need the space and tools and clamps to do a clean, scratch-free assembly, once everything arrives. I have Scherr's catalog and literature here on my desk next to the PC, and I have read through all their material enough to sense that they are a good quality house. Do it, and enjoy the process. If you have built any furniture or cabinetry yourself you will have no trouble doing it with KD cabinet components.
Thanks for the time and effort of your reply... I appreciate the help immensely.
I've read through all the Scherr's stuff too, and get a similar impression. But one never completely knows until they have someting tangible in hand.
I'm glad you have had favourable experience with cabinet kits. The set of cabinets I am envisioning would make a retail outlet tell me to get out, and probably make a custom shop wonder what planet I am from--though I doubt I could afford custom built.
Do you happen to know of a web address for Conestoga Woodworking...I'll go searching in a couple days, and a head start would be valuable!!!
See about Conestoga at http://www.conestogawood.com
Gene....nice link. Any idea what these things cost comparitively? Seems really nice. Is it worth the effort for the money? Nice dovetails. I think the trick in KD's is to make it worth your while or why bother.
I also liked the poster that suggested refacing. I actually use to do very well several years back doing that for people. Now that REALLY saves you a whole lotta $$$$$ if thats the objective. Thats actually the best suggestion if its a possability for Nan.
Be well
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Here is a drawing of a little cabinet job delivering now, for a small carriage-house apartment. It is for an L-shaped kitchen and includes a 60" bath vanity. A bigger job arrives in ten days. Tell me what you think it is worth.
Could you maybe put up a larger copy? I wasn't able to make out what was in the diagram...is it the specs from the supplier?
Do you want what I think it should cost? Thanks for the info.
Here is just the plan without the elevations. L-shaped, refrig cab at bottom left, range midway up the side, then sink under window, with dishwasher on the right of the sink. Base cabs between refrig and range, between susan corner and range, then susan in corner, wall cabs all across tops, but not over sink. RTA cab boxes, faceframed, beaded openings, inset doors and drawer fronts, and a bathroom vanity at 60" to match. Delivered for less than $4000, everything prefinished except for the face frames, which we will spray coat after assembly (masking the openings).
How about leaving the cabinets and re-facing them? New doors would change the entire look and replace the plastic laminate with granite. Your kitchen will look like a million bucks and nothing sells a house like granite kitchen counters with tile backsplashes.
Hows that for cash sucking free advice
some conditions may apply...
Refacing is not an option for me. The current cabinets are pure particle board from the early 80's, and barely stay together.
I don't have the personality to cover something up and whistle away for someone else to handle headaches.
Granite would be nice, but I'm afraid that at this price point it wouldn't return anything to me on a sale.
I haven't used them (yet) myself, but I've researched them several times, talked with them on the phone, gotten their catalog, traded numerous e-mails, etc. I haven't worked up a price on a kitchen from them, but as to the quality, I'm convinced you will end up with a first-class product.
If you have the time yourself to knock the boxes together, I suspect you'll come out well. I figure I have a bazillion other things to do in the course of building a house, so I'm passing on them only for that reason. If you have the time and space and a big pile of bar clamps, and maybe a dependable sidekick, I'd say go for it ... then come back and give the rest of us a report!
you got me thinking on building one own cabinets. By using one of the so many companies that sell the doors as a kit, all you would have to build would be the frame and drawers. Maybe bought the drawers from a company too. What about the frame, What type material could you make this from and be durable. I notice the plywood at the depot is really not that great. But price would be a hugh factor. Furniture quality plywood would be out of question. At times I thought of just buying stainless steel counters from a resturante supply house. We have one here that sell used equipment.
Brownbag
I've built a whole lotta cabs. What I might suggest is to find some of the companies that have the KD carcasses and you build the stiles and rails. The doevetailed drawers and doors are accessable in high quality mail order. I've never really gone that route but from what I can see from websites its seems you can get real high quality merchandise. I usually build my own cabs from the carcasses to stiles and rails and raised paneled doors on my Williams and Hussey planer shaper. I don't do alot as its real time consuming but when I have a special need I'll do it. Soon as I do the kitch in my new/old house I'll post some pics but that wont be till this summer I'm guessing. Its really not al that difficult. Its just real time consuming. I'm assuming you know the basics though.You can use 3/4 "birch ply which isnt terribly expensive for and the sides that show you can use oak or cherry ply or whatever it is you want the cabs to be. I'd ask more questions in KNOTS about this idea if its what your plan is.
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
ther're talking about thai leaves over in fine cooking, doncha think they mean thai sticks????? go set 'em straight.listening for the secret.......searching for the sound...
Panama....Things do change homes....What ever became of those little beads at the top of the herb..dead in the flower.you remember what thats called ...doncha? Hint: Last name is Sutherland (leave the er out).....lol
Be well : )))))
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks for the very good information. Everything I have seen has been very positive...so I should probably go for it. Fortunately, I have the patience and time to do something like this!!
Nan
I have not used Sherrs Kd cabinets , but have ordered doors and drawer boxes from them many times- the drawers are dovetailed, and the doors are sanded ready to finish. I have been happy with their products and would suspect their cabs. are good also.
Yeah, sounds like great stuff to me too. Thanks for the help. Are they pretty easy to deal with? Are the prices good? Do you get a trade discount, and if so about how much do they give you? If you don't mind; thanks a ton!!
They are very easy to deal with. I dont know about a trade discount, but they give good volume discounts. I normally will build all the cabinet boxes for the entire house the order all the doors at once. I always find it is more economical to buy my doors from them(or some other door co.) than making them myself, so I would say their prices are good.
I'm not familiar with that particular manufacturer but I was in a similar position months ago. I bought from Crown-Point cabinetry in New Hampshire. I think they advertise in FHB, TOH, Old House Journal, etc. They weren't inexpensive but were less expensive than many of the private party cabinet shops in my area that seem to add on a buyer's premium since the area is chock full of demand and cash. (I'm too frugal to pay their inflated prices, a.k.a. cheap b**ard.) It was difficult to go for it sight unseen so they referred me to a couple of people in town who'd ordered from them and sent me a full door and drawer set in frame to put my mind at ease on the quality. I'd say the craftsmanship on the doors is very good. The only thing I wasn't too happy about was the 1/2" ply they used rather than 3/4". However, when installing them they didn't appear to rack at all (have face frames to stiffen) so maybe 3/4" is slight overkill anyway or at least I'm trying to convince myself of that. Their lead time was pretty long though (about 12 weeks). That worked for me though since I had a bunch of other kitchen related work to straighten out before I was ready for installation. The cabinets were shipped via a furniture-type delivery with each cabinet individually blanket wrapped.
The one thing I wasn't too happy with was any subsequent follow-ups. I had a crown molding finishing the top of soffit. My longest length was about 8' 8" and the longest length they supplied was 8'. I didn't think that after dropping a wad of cash on nice cabinets I wanted to splice two sections together. I called them and they subsequently sent me a 9' length (yet to arrive) but it took too long in my opinion to fix that oversight (about 6 weeks so far from initial request for the longer length). I also requested some subsequent cabinets which were but a fraction of my original order and that design took too long to get rolling and get a final price. In the end it's too pricey considering the size of additional cabinets.
That's my two cents.
Just wanted to address your issue of 1/2" vs. 3/4" ply. I spent time designing and supervising installation of yacht interiors. Weight was always an issue, and no on was ever willing to add an additional 50% to the weight of a box. When it's glued and fastened at the perimeter, and has a face frame, 1/2" ply is incredibly strong. I can't think of any situation, unless it was, say, the bottom of a full-height pantry cabinet, where 3/4" ply would be required for strength alone. There might be other issues where the extra 1/4" is handy, like drilling for shelf hardware, drawer slides, etc., but I remain unconvinced that 3/4" pyl is necessary from the strength aspect.
BEMW
This deserves another thread IMO. When one compares apples to apples 1/2" is worse then HD junk which makes one think about the real stats. Building a boat is extremely different then cabs. I've built strip kayaks and I use 1/4" which is extremely strong and light but that doesnt translate to cabs. Granted .one may use 1/4" or 5/8" or whatever but what I think what we're talking about here isnt apples to apples (or is that oranges to oranges????? whatever). IMO when I see cab carcasses composed of 1/2 or 5/8" it makes me wonder about the integrity of the company unless they specifically specify their purpose in that area.
Personally I think youre handing out bad or misinformation because per square inch of a cabinet loaded fully compared to a boat is not compareable....I think you'll agree..no? I do hear where yer coming from but I think youre thinking boats more n cabs. : )
Be well
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Sorry, I have to differ with you. While I admit to being only a piece of an engineer (any full-on engineering types want to weigh in here?), I am talking about boat interiors ... not boats (where I think I could talk more authoritatively).
My point, and I'm going to go with it until someone can show me an argument against, in a quantitative fashion, is that a 1/2" ply carcass, with a face frame, providing the unit has been properly glued and mechanically fastened, provides enough strength and, yea, even enough reserve to handle the loads of a kitchen full of appliances, vittles, and granite. It's those same properties, materials and fastening systems, when applied to a boat (a curved box), make it extremely strong for its weight, when properly engineered.
If there is someone with credentials who wants to expand on this, and yes, another thread might be in order, I think it would be a great conversation!
BEMW
As I said....I've built Kayaks of 1/4" material that can withstand literally tons of abuse. Wasnt my point though. It was a comparrison from one company to another. I'm sorry...I didnt realize we were talking scientific results. In which case we have a totally different thread going. My oppologies. As you may have been told, I'm not the brightest guy on earth <G>
Be well
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy sometimes you sure have a bee in your bonnet.
I'd be totally happy with some KD 1/2" melamine faced carcasses in my little carpenter peasant tract house....I think I make good money but I don't make as much as the people I work for. 1/2" would be just fine and plenty strong.
Also, it makes me proud to hear an almost universal disdain for HD...shows me that carpenters aren't all stupid.