*
The scenario: the jobsite is on a one way street that loops into the neighborhood, runs up and down the ‘hood and back out to the main drag. The jobsite is less than a block in from the main street but on the exit side of the loop. Some of the tradesmen have been driving the wrong way for that half block distance, thereby avoiding the long, circuitous, but legal drive in.
The GC stuck a hand painted sign out front saying,
“Attention: subs seen driving the wrong way will be fired on the spot.”
What do you think? Would you ever stoop to such tyranny? My first thoughts are if she–the GC–is trying to maintain some professionalism on the job she can start with getting rid of that shitty looking sign.
Replies
*
It is legal to drive up to a half block the wrong way on a one-way street.
*Hope that GC has a list of subs in her back pocket. If those rules are in effect for the duration of the job it is garunteed to go over on the time frame. I might just drive up the wrong way to provake her!
*It's probably a good idea to maintain some professional decorum with regards to traffica laws and parking. I don't think that sign will be effective however.Just drive the right way, and try to be co-operative. It makes life easier for all.blueps AND PLEASE DON'T SPEED THROUGH THE SUBS!
*I'm with Blue on this one. The folks working on the site are not exempt from the laws applying to local residents, and their driving is probably viewed by the neighbors in the same vein as job site radios blasting the area and fast food wrappers left blowing about the site and onto their lawns.However, the CG has picked a lousy way to approach the problem. Maybe I'm lucky, but my experience has taught me that if I approach someone (a sub in this instance) and ask in an adult fashion for their cooperation, I'll generally receive it. Maybe some jerk won't go along, but at least I won't offend the more mature members of the team whose self-esteem isn't predicated on breaking traffic rules.You asked for opinions... Steve
*I've worked plenty of jobs that required construction vehicles to take a circuitous route that was created soley to keep them off existing, quiet, residential streets. It's no big deal. How lazy do you have to be not to drive an extra 1 1/2 min. to get where your going? I don't buy the suggestion that it's legal to drive the wrong way(even a short distance)on any one-way street. Not here in Ohio anyway. The subs should quit bitchin', thank their lucky stars that they were warned rather than face a citation when an irate nieghbor calls the local cops, and duh....act professionaly.Sounds like somebody might be resenting working for a female GC.........John
*Rich:Assuming that this is a public street the GC has no right to tie contract termination to traffic violations. I doubt if your contract addresses such issues. I have run into similar situations. One day a superintendent posted a notice saying that there would be a $50.00 fine for wearing shoes on new carpet. I provide my guys with disposable booties to wear over there shoes when working over new carpet. Our intention is to keep things clean but I will not let them work shoeless. No where in our contract is there a provision for such fines. If we or someone else causes $50.00 or $500.00 worth of damage then they should make good for the damage. When someone in charge makes up rules like this as they go it sets a bad tone. I can see asking everyone to obey the traffic laws to protect the safety of those coming and going from the job, but a threat doesn't set well with most people. In the above carpet situation I can see cautioning people about being responsible for damage and respecting the work of others etc. but these arbitrary fines that are not in the contract just rub me the wrong way. I hope not to be considered one who resents working with women. I have two women employees working for me as finish carpenters, one journey level ,one apprentice, out of seven total carpenters. My point is about attitude, respect and yes even manners. I have seen superintendents in stressfull situations throw out these tyranical rules and it can set off a negative tone through out a job. I simpathize because I have had my bad moments and done similar things. I hope when these bad "vibes" come flying around that most people can shrug it off and counter it with somthing positive.
*What I said was neither a suggestion to go ahead and drive the wrong way, nor was it a 'suggestion' that it is legal. It was a statement of fact. If I were making suggestions, I would have suggested that maybe someone was making too big a deal of the whole thing. Or should I say someone's. On both sides of the issue...
*"It is legal to drive up to a half block the wrong way on a one way street" Where? Not here in Ohio, and I don't believe for a minute it is anywhere else. Sorry Luka-I'd say you got your "facts" wrong.John
*Ross,
View Image © 1999-2000"By the time a man realizes that maybe his father was right, he usually has a son who thinks he's wrong." Charles Wadsworth
*>Where? Not here in Ohio, and I don't believe for a minute it is anywhere else. Where do you get your 'facts' ? Your opinion based on the fact that you've never heard of it ?I used to be a sheriffs deputy. I was responsible for writing traffic tickets occassionaly, same as any other officer. I was told it was legal to go up to half a block the wrong way on a one way street. In a situation such as this, if driving the wrong way was being done on a habitual or ongoing basis, and/or traffic was being obstructed/endangered on a regular basis, a warning was to be given, and a ticket to follow if the behaviour didn't stop.
*This job just happens to be near my home, so I pass by every day. I have to laugh when I see that sign, like, who made her king? Sure, her job and all, but as Ross pointed out, her arbitrary rules are abrasive and set the wrong tone. Too, to see that sign--dripping red paint on large drywall scrap--just implies to everyone with eyes the level of professionalism is not up to snuff. I mean, what kind of crew has to be mothered like that?Not incidently, this sign went up the 2nd or 3rd day of the little remodel. An earlier sign--again, handpainted looking like a thirdgrader's work--was posted on the just delivered lumber. Basically, it was redundant rambling admonition to anyone to think twice before you steal any wood, the neighbors are watching, blah, blah. Thing is, we live in a rural town and on a very quiet street.JRS: if it were a guy who posted the sign, would your comment about resentment still hold?
*As in so many circumstances, it "all depends." Depends on who lives in the area, who is complaining, who is enforcing or ignoring ordinances. My neighbor's brother or uncle is a cop, and his police car is almost always parked "the wrong way" from time to time; I once got a ticket when mine was parked that way for 10 minutes, on the same dead-end street.When I was in construction, just because the GC or Super tells you to do something that you think is illegal (or the City/Province thinks so), is probably not a good defense. I think the GC should have told the subs in person. The sign and its message is tacky. That said, tons of City workers disobey all kinds of rules we citizens would be ticketed for, and many big builders get away w/all kinds of things.
*Luka,
View Image © 1999-2000"By the time a man realizes that maybe his father was right, he usually has a son who thinks he's wrong." Charles Wadsworth
*I got a ticket in Oklahoma for driving b 20 feetthe wrong way on a one way street.
*And once again, Fusco nails the problem. One thing that just doesn't seem to sink into most builders heads is that they don't have a god-given right to do whatever they want when it comes to driving, parking and damage, but particularly driving. This impacts on the customer, and on the neighbors, who then bitch to the customer, who bitches to the GC, who has to hear it day and night. A whole lot of anger comes from the stupidest move by the lowest sub's helper on the job. What is it that makes people think that when they're driving the pick-up instead of the family station wagon that traffic laws no longer apply to them? What is it that makes people think that the rest of the world doesn't exist when it comes to doing whatever makes their life easier? I won't permit it on my jobs. Keeping the customer, and the neighbors, happy and friendly is an absolute necessity. And I expect my crews and subs to live with the law and show respect and courtesy at all times. And when I'm stopped in the middle of the road by someone else's crew or sub who thinks they own the road, I let them know my thoughts on the subject (though I do drive away promptly, just for safety sake).SHG
*Joe,You are correct. I should rephrase what I said.It is illegal to go the wrong way on a one-way street. However, there is an exception to the law which allows going the wrong way for up to half a block. The purpose of the exception was to give leniency to those who have simply made a wrong turn, and as a result of a minor mistake, have found themselves going the wrong way on a one way street. They are allowed to go to the alleyway which is at halfway on most city blocks, and turn off of the street.Because the exception exists, if a ticket were issued every time, the courts would be dripping with people who would claim that they had merely made a mistake and did not intentionaly go the wrong way. Therefore we were told that we should just treat it as if it were legal to go a half-block.Much the same as at a 4-way stop. When 2 cars come to a 4-way at approximately the same time, the one which is on the right hand of the other is the one allowed by law to go first, regardless of which technically got there a few nanoseconds before the other. This is what is meant by the right of way at a 4-way stop. It is not the 'right' to go first, it is, the one on the right is the one to go first. Look in the drivers' education books of any state where I have ever applied for a driver's liscence, you will see it there. I would be assuming if I said it were in every book in every state. A 4 way stop is not a first-come first-served intersection, yet it is treated that way by the public at large. A policeman could sit at a 4-way all day and write tickets. These tickets would stand the chance of being thrown out for the same reason a ticket for going half a block on a one way street would be, lack of intent.If however, it could be shown that there was intent to break the law and go a half block or more on a one way street, a ticket could be issued. Therefore, the warning first. My mistake here is the same as I accused JRS of, basicaly. I made an asumption based on my experience. I had to sit through long boring classes on all this stuff. I then had reminders of it when I or others caught flak for what was considered a waste of time when tickets were issued for these things. (On the one hand they tell us what the law really says, and then on the other hand we are told not to waste our time and theirs by enforcing that law. LOL) If I hadn't developed the approach within my 'id' that these things were legal, I would have been pulled both ways. In other words, I stated my opinon, based on my own experience, as fact. Whether my facts are true, (based on real life practice of that law), or not... I definately owe an apology to RJS in particular, and to anyone else whose intelligence or common sense were troubled.And thank you, Joe, for once again pointing out the obvious.P.S. To anyone who has gotten a ticket for going the wrong way for less than half a block, you could have fought the ticket and it probably would have been thrown out as a matter of course. It would be very unlikely that a policeman would actualy show up for the court appearance to back up that ticket. This is one of the ways those tickets are a waste of time. It wastes department time in paperwork, it wastes the court's time on tickets that have a greater probability of being thrown out, and it wastes the policeman's time. Not only at the time of writing, but also because he would have to appear in court to defend the ticket if it were going to stand any chance of not being dismissed. (Further wasting the department's time if the policeman is supposed to be on a beat at the time.)Once again, my apologies.
*probably one of Chuck Crawford's relatives that wrote you up.
*Yeah, did the cop look a little 'wooly' ???
*I would throw the husk from one of my favorite malt beverages at that sign on my way to work in the morning. I'm kidding. The simpler solution would be to tell the sub bosses about the problem. If they are that obstinate that they won't comply, why are they working for you in the first place?We recently worked on a job (600k condos adjoining a golf course) where they had a sign posted that said " workmen are to place rubbish in containers" or something to that effect so that it did not blow onto the golf course. I thought that was reasonable though redundant, at least to my crew. This GC sounds like a jerk-off. Or jerk-off-tres (female version) as the case may be.By the way I feel eminently qualified to respond to a post that says "opinions please". I have an inexhaustible supply of these. Wisdom, on the other hand, is in short supply.Tom
*Sounds more like CYA on the part of the general, to me. As soon as someone hits another vehicle or a person, travelling the wrong way up a one way street (breaking the law), to get to a jobsite where the general is aware of this behaviour from her subs...well, I think I'd want my ass covered too. Whether the sign is enforced or not is another matter.
*Not unless he was a cross dresser.John
*LukaWhat your saying is going the wrong way on a one way street is illegal. There is no exception to this, it depends completly on if you've interupted some cops donut break.As most of us know any cop can and will let you slide for any number of things if they feel like it.But to say going to court could beat the ticket is wrong,there is no "oh I made a misstake defence".If there were everyone who speeds would claim they didn't know they were speeding and get away with it.I mean really.Vince
*You know, I divorced the last person who always knew what I was saying better than I did...
*Maybe they were right.
*HAHAHAHAMaybe I should introduce the two of you.: )
*Please I've got an ex of my own.Vince
*Maybe the GC's just trying to protect the company's image, since it's her name on the bigger sign out front and not the subs. Some neighbors probably bitched, and seeing as how they may fund her next coupla projects, she figured to make the paying and potentially paying customers happy. I'd do the same. I can't tell ya it's illegal to smoke, but i'm not paying ya for long if ya smoke on my smoke-free site....or what ever "law's" I decide to make and enforce. Jeff
*Seems like 3 issues here if I'm reading it right. One is that some of the subs are driving the wrong way down a one way street, two is that the sign offends the sensibilities of some of those subs and three the GC is a female. My opinions then are these, one, even small infractions can lead to large problems in residential neighborhoods and since reffered work makes up the bulk of my work I try to maintain a clean site that reflects a professional attitude and does not become a nuisance to the neighborhood. I,d like to know how far these guys are driving that this last mile or two is so hard for them negotiate in the right direction. Two, seems like someone is a little thin skinned. Three it is important to me that the checks are timely and good and it doesn't much matter if Mr. Jones or Ms. Doe signs the check . In my opinion. Skip
*There may be some additional facts. Like perhaps the GC told the subs to stop it and they blew her off, so she puts up what looks like a pissy sign (but which she prefers to a face-to-face confrontation). Go investigate, Rich! Agreed, she should get a better-looking sign. :)If she's the boss, and it -is- the law after all, they should do it her way. I can't remember whether she has a legal obligation to control her subs (employees, definitely), but I bet she does. Going to and from the worksite is absolutely work-related. Anyway, she can legally fire a sub for any reason she wants, short of a prohibited reason (discrimination, etc.). Whether it breaches their contract is another matter. Driving the wrong way sounds like a good enough reason, and who's going to pursue this in court?Now in Boston, land of the crazy drivers, there was understanding that you could go the wrong way up a one-way street, say to get a scarce parking space, if you did it in REVERSE. It was also believed that the speed limit did not apply in reverse, because after all your speed was negative. Just my observations. :)
*The way I see it is you all better stop driving the wrong way. If it were my job, I sure the hell wouldn't want a bunch of my subs aggravating neighbors and displaying such inconsiderae behavior. It is no different than working on a residential side street with 25 mph posted and your subs find it necessary to do 45 because it's a long street and 25 mph takes too long.If I told you to quit driving the wrong way and you kept it up you would be gone. It is my company's image at stake not you as a sub. When others see a sign saying that "ABC Company" is doing this job they don't blame problems on the subs, they blame "ABC Company". If you can't follw the rules, get a new place to work.Pete Draganic