*
I need advise on the best way install a front door in a rough opening that is about 2″ out of square. This is an eighty year old house and it has settled causing this problem. The previous owners compensated for this by planning the top edge of the door in a curvilinear fashion to fit the changing dimensions of the opening.
The new owner wants the door replaced and is upgrading to a very nice door. Should I cut into the header and shim the low side of the threshold? I want to do this properly and I’m not sure of the framing I’ll encounter as this is an old house.
Also my owner wants to use a door she “absolutely loves”, but the jamb is 45/8″ and this house (plaster walls) has a jamb thickness of 51/2″. Would it be best to use jamb extensions or have the door rehung?
Replies
*
Hi Bobcat,
No win situation.
Regardless of what you do, your work will look like it's crooked.
Easiest way to do it is to cut and plane the door to fit the existing frame/jamb.
Gabe
*
Two (2) inches out of square on a 36" door?? Jeez Louise!
I would have to see it, but I would try to square the rough opening if I could and re-hang the door. Use some plywood shims, and top it off with some 3/4" acx.
You will have to trim the door significantly, and that door might not work, but at least it is square.
As for the jamb, you'd have to re-hang it anyway if you try to fix the problem.
*
Bobcat,
View Image
© 1999-2000
"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it."
Aristotle
*Bobcat,Interesting predicament. Have you determined what is or has caused the settling? Has the movement stopped or is there an ongoing, underlying cause such as rot, termites, or foundation deteriorization.Before you go cutting into a perfectly good door and jamb to make it fit or start butchering the rough framing and/or throwing in shims, check below and see if there is something you can do to arrest or even reverse the problem. Be mindful of the fact that you have plaster but repairing that after movement may be preferable to leaving a potentially continuing settlement problem and a shaved door that may need more shaving in the future. A square and plumb door always looks better.Now would also be a good time, if you don't know about how old houses were framed, to do some research, get your hands dirty and make it right.As the other guys have said, cyber fixing is a bear.
*I'm with Ralph,I'd like to know what made it move that much. Sounds bad and will get worse.Ed. Williams
*
Bobcat,
I agree with Joe, you probably can find out if you have any headroom to play with by removing the inside header casing, knocking out a little plaster/lath and peeking inside. Chances are if this doorway has been like this for many years with no further movement, then you can probably expect no further settlement to occur.
Since you say the door your client wants to use has a 4-5/8 jamb and that the actual doorway needs a 5-1/2 jamb; I would tear out the existing jambs and and rehang the door with new jambs. If you tear out, then you should have a good view of the original framing and a good idea as to why the movement occurred in the first place. Fix the framing, install new jambs, and hang your new door.
If you leave in the existing jambs, then extension jambs must be added. If you go this route, you gain nothing. The door would have to be cut out of square to fit; extension jambs that are not painted look like extensions, and you have no explanation as to why settlement occurred in the doorway, and you have done nothing structurally to correct it. All you've done is a little cosmetic work.
If you are afraid to tear out a door and tackle the framing, then you should not be in the carpentry business. Tear it out and do the right thing.
Davo.
*
Chasing ghosts can be the most frustrating aspects of working in an older home that's severely out of plumb.
You can install the product by fitting the product to the existing or you can fit the existing to the product. Regardless, something will no tbe plumb when your done, unless you demolish the entire house and start from scratch.
One can be done for $200.00 and the other can cost thousands, depending on how far you want to go.
If you remove the frame, you have to remove the exterior and interior casing, you also risk damaging the old plastered walls in doing so, you plumb the door and the ceiling, floor and wall lines are not symetrical to the new doorway.
If the openning is 2 inches off plumb, it means the rooms has sunk a substantial amount as well. If this occurred over the past century, it's one thing, if this occurred recently due to a failure or fatigue in the structure, then that's another thing to consider.
Regardless of the situation, your responsibility is not to spend your clients money but to honestly evaluate the complete situation, prepare costs sheets on several scenerios and their consequences to the owner's house. If you need outside input, also bring this to the clients attention.
But always remember, it is the client's home, it is the client's money and because of this, it is the client's decision whether you fit the door to the house or the house to the door.
You can only make the client aware of your experiences with this type of situation and it's possible consequences.
Gabe
*80 year old house equals a house built circa. 1920.. this is conventional framing..determine the cause.. offer the solution..then decide with the owner, if they want to fix the underlying problem or just install the door.... two inches sounds like a localized rot problem..dig... investigate... on their clock..b but hey, whadda i no ?
*Gabe,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Bobcat,If you knowingly put this door in an existing bad foundation situation, are you prepared to go back year after year or maybe month after month and "fix" it for free? When it sticks again, who do you think the client will call? When the keeper won't line up with the dead bolt anymore because the floor sank some more can you just say, "Hey, I told you so." I don't think you're the kind of guy to just walk away and say "you get what you get". If you were, you wouldn't be asking us our opinion.If you're not careful, this one little door could turn into many, many headaches. I say fix it right or walk away. If the client can't afford a proper repair, then they can't afford to have you come back time after time to keep it operating.Ed. Williams
*Give the house a few more years and the owner can sell tickets for admission to the amazing leaning house that defies gravity......... :-)Doors are the last thing they need to worry about. The foundation and floor joists need all the attention.
*
let me just follow up on the message I deleted-
Explain to the client the nature of the problem and the likely results of fitting a door to the opening.
Maybe the emperor don't mind be naked...
*
I need advise on the best way install a front door in a rough opening that is about 2" out of square. This is an eighty year old house and it has settled causing this problem. The previous owners compensated for this by planning the top edge of the door in a curvilinear fashion to fit the changing dimensions of the opening.
The new owner wants the door replaced and is upgrading to a very nice door. Should I cut into the header and shim the low side of the threshold? I want to do this properly and I'm not sure of the framing I'll encounter as this is an old house.
Also my owner wants to use a door she "absolutely loves", but the jamb is 45/8" and this house (plaster walls) has a jamb thickness of 51/2". Would it be best to use jamb extensions or have the door rehung?