A couple of days ago the lights in my kids bedroom flickered and went out – almost immediately they came back on, then flickered again, then stayed on for another day or so. Then they went out for good – same thing happened in bathroom. Outlets in both rooms quit working – everything quit working at the same time.
I checked the breaker in the panel and it was ok – showed 120 volts coming out of it – wire is aluminum.
The only thing I know of that still works right is a fan/light in the bathroom.
I test the voltage in 2 outlets and they both showed 120 volts in BOTH left and right receptacles slots. To clarify, I set a multi-meter on 200v ac, put a probe in the right side receptacle slot and a probe in the ground slot and the meter read 120. I moved the probe from the right side slot to the left side slot and the meter read 120. I did the same thing to the bottom outlet with the same results. Then I removed the probe from the ground slot and held it to the plate-mounting screw and re-tested, with the same results.
Unless I am mistaken, there has gotta be wires crossed up somewhere making both black and white wires hot.
What would cause this and where would I look? And why wouldn’t it trip the breaker??
Replies
Did you try to replace the light bulb????????????:-)
Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
One of two fairly common events cause these readings:
1) If your using a high impedance multi-meter it can easily read 120v of induced or standing voltage. In some ways similar to static electricity. A low impedance meter or Wiggy avoids these false readings.
2) You may be reading the return voltage, likely from a light or transformer driven device, on a broken neutral. The voltage is coming from the panel. Going through a lamp or transformer and failing to make it back to the panel because of a break in a neutral. The broken neutral connection prevents the neutral from being held down to near zero.
To find the fault either plug in a radio, or other noise maker, or lamp watched by a helper and proceed around the area tapping receptacle and switch plates with a screwdriver handle repeatedly. Get physical but not so rough that you shatter the cover plate. You can also tap and wiggle light fixtures as a quick check of them.You can also use a male plug. You plug it in and wiggle the receptacle.
When your doing all this you listen for the radio or your helper who is watching the light to make noise. A flicker or noise tells you are close. If you can repeat it your pretty sure where a problem is.
If that doesn't give you any clues it's down to wild guesses and pulling the devices, receptacles and switches, to find the problem.
Sometime a small smoke mark or arid smell will be present at the site of the trouble so don't forget to notice details and smells. All clues are good clues if they leads to the source of the problem.
A larger problem is the aluminum wiring. Consider getting it, or parts of it, replaced. An electrical contractor with lots of experience with old work will get the job done for the least money. Aluminum branch wiring is flaky stuff. I have seen forty year old aluminum wiring chugging along without problems. In other cases this stuff can be stable for years and suddenly start having issues. A lot of this might have to do with differences in usage by families. Like most things if you don't load aluminum wiring it will last longer than if you use lots of space heaters and blow driers.
Once this stuff strats going south it, short of a major rework, doesn't get better. Copper wiring is much more resilient. That's not to say that this problem is not singular in otherwise reliable wiring. by any means get, ASAP, an electrician in to take a look. If for no other reason than to set your mind at ease.
"1) If your using a high impedance multi-meter it can easily read 120v of induced or standing voltage. In some ways similar to static electricity. A low impedance meter or Wiggy avoids these false readings."
No, not in this case.
It still means an open neutral or ground. But an open ground won't keep the stuff from working.
If the neutral was not open then you would have continuity between the ground and the neutral and the voltage would be "near zero".
But the high impedance meter can be a real confusion when you are trying to prove that an open circuit is open.
SELL THE HOUSE
Well, to those of you who had intelligent responses, thank you very much. And to the useless idiots who suggested changing the lightbulb and selling the house, please don't waste my time anymore.
I have troubleshot the problem and it appears to be a failed porcelain (sp?) light fixture in the bathroom. The aluminum wire from the panel comes to it and then everything continues on in copper. I disconnected the light fixture and wire-nutted the whites back together and everything is working fine.
Tried calling my electrician tonight but he was unavailable, so I thank you for your help.
Hey that's called humour, and it's part of why this board is interesting.
RobertRobert
Well then don't ask a Deck guy electrical questions......................Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Time to buy a new long nose electricians hammer then you can answer electrical questions the right way
And to the useless idiots who suggested changing the lightbulb and selling the house, please don't waste my time anymore.
Here's one you are going to love
If you can't take a little humor, and Bob, and Imrec are idiots, why don't you quit coming for free advice and call an electrician.
This board has personality, everyone here has their own, and occasionally we joke around a bit, life's to short to be serious all the damn time.
Lighten up relax and enjoy,
My 2 cents.
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year
Edited 4/10/2003 2:15:36 PM ET by CAG
Edited 4/10/2003 3:03:43 PM ET by CAG
"Lighten up..."
He's trying, but the lights don't work! Nice pun, I'm sure it was intentional.
I am truly witty what can I say... Or it was just an accident :) you pick
View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year
Edited 4/10/2003 3:02:56 PM ET by CAG
I understand where you're coming from, CAG. The guy just walked in here and immediately took offense at something.
But - If he really did just join last night - He may not realize that those 2 were just poking fun. He may have taken those comments as insults, since he's not accustomed to us.
Overall, it would have been better if he had just ignored the comments. But don't be TOO hard on him without knowing where he was coming from.Why do they call it "Oriental Strand Board"???
Well, if it was just humor, I do apologize and I am new - maybe I was harsh, but I was seriously trying to get help solving a potentially dangerous problem and didn't want to waste a lot of time wading through posts that were not helpful or even attempting to be helpful.
You probably have a community here that knows each other and posts regularly, but as a newcomer, I don't know who you are and some of the responses that were apparantly intended for the enjoyment of that community seemed callous to me.
Again, I would like to graciously thank those who posted helpful responses.
Anyway, nuff said, and I will be more patient in the future.
And, by the way, it was rather late at night when I posted my response...I was a bit edgy.
mpeachbill.
Fair enough,
I can assure you with out having to ask pro-dek or imerc that they meant no offence, just a little humor. Sorry if I came across as an asz, also was a bit edgy at the time...
If you stay, you will enjoy it here, and this board does have a lot of personality, stay out of the tavern, I'd bet you wouldn't like it there, gets a bit viscous.
Anyway, sorry again, and welcome aboard, stay a while and have fun.
Good luck with your electrical problem.
NeilView ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year
Well, Apology accepted, I guess we shouldn't of poked fun when you could have had a fire hazard. When I have an electrical problem I call my electrician. When I have a plumbing problem I call the plumber. So when someone asks for advise on things outside my expertise I usually have a line to give them.
Now don't be bashful there are a lot of good guys here willing to help in all aspects of the building industry. Bob
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Okay... appology accepted.
I started to post a sensible reply.
With the last couple of days of getting my parade rained on and be in a sh!tty mood, I changed it to what you got.
When all fails have asense of humor.
Thanks CAG...
Just had to shake my head over peachy's posting.
You did me a favor....
I'd said something more like "It's aluminium wiring.. Sell the GD house.. Or up your insurance and start your short timers clock. But I guess I won't now.
Thanks again Neil.
Any time friendView ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year
"Well, to those of you who had intelligent responses, thank you very much. And to the useless idiots who suggested changing the lightbulb and selling the house, please don't waste my time anymore."
Is that an invitation or what? Gentlemen, unleash the dogs.................
p.s. Please tape "kick me" sign on back of shirt.
mpeachbill,
I was about to add my 2 cents when 4lorn1 posted his reply. Very sound advice. My bet is on the neutral, don't over look the panel connection, aluminum heating and cooling has a way of loosening up at connections. While you are in the panel torque down all of your terminations, you'll be surprised how much you'll get at each point. Good luck.
Sorry. Didn't mean to steal your thunder.
Get yourself a stainless steel brush about the size of a toothbrush, available in the welding section of the big box, and a tube of anti-oxidant compound, commonly referred to as grease. Messy stuff it can help keep those connections running cool. Do a search on "anti-oxidant" and common variations and possibly my name for a description why and how to use this stuff.
Edited to add last block.
Edited 4/10/2003 1:33:10 AM ET by 4LORN1
By all means, I love to read a reply from someone knowledgable, I guess that's why I lurk around this site so often. There are some smart folks posting here.