Last Wednesday I had the opportunity to go to a vinyl siding seminar put on by Norandex at the local Holiday Inn(okay, it was cold,I was unmotivated to work outside and they had coffee and doughnuts)
It was put on by a foam company that laminates the foam to the back of the siding for Norandex and 13 other national siding manufacturing co’s. It wound up more being a marketing strategy session than a siding how-to.
Anywho, this salemen got up with his fancy graphs and began to tell us that siding jobs in OUR area, according to a market research study for plain vinyl(not insulated) were selling for $400/sq. This is for an 18/sq. house, does not include any removal, or gutters and windows, and just basic window wraps and the siding job.
I screamed bullshoot, we got into it on several other points, and basically I was a tough customer. They are pushing the insulated, and claim we can get $500/sq for it with no problem.
He went on to talk about HD and Lowes, and what they are doing to our business, blah, blah, blah. He then claimed that FHB had contacted them about doing a vinyl article, and how the new insulated are already being put up as the best new product, winning awards yada yada yada. To which I directed him to this forum, and said he would get killed by the readers for suggesting vinyl and fine home building in the same paragraph.
So who’s getting $400/sq for vinyl…..step up and set me straight!
Replies
Liars and scumbags I think.
Nobody at this forum fits that description.
Have a good day
Cliffy
Keith, we get about 170.00 per square and about 10.00 per foot on cornice. It depends on how fancy everything is. They have come out with a vertical siding but we have not priced it yet. When we put up the beaded soffit it cost about 40.00 per square more.
I would like to get 400.00 but no one here in Alabama will pay that.
Our prices include material.
Some builders here would not think of using vinyl on their houses. But there those who love it and at the prices we charge it pays pretty good.
James
$400/SQ isn't so unheard of here in central NJ. You won't get that kind of money banging the stuff up for production builders where the mexicans will hang the stuff for $40/SQ labor, but you can easily get it on residing jobs direct for the homeowner.
Bob
$195/sq for average, run of the mill siding.
Up to $260 for the better stuff.
The foam backed stuff is SUCH a pain to work with... I MIGHT do it for 400 sq (that's subbing it; as I have NO desire whatsoever to work with the stuff). Even the most experienced guys are getting 20% + waste on the manufactured foam-backed stuff.
I sold one "foam backed job" last year at $350/sq (subbed it out... was a nice fill job for a couple of days for me to supervise... just to get a feel for the product), until my siding rep advised me of a newer product that is basically extruded foam... sculpted to fit double 4 and double 5 (dutch or straight lap). It goes up like a champ... doesn't set the siding off the house like regular foam-board would... and is generally a decent compromise for the homeowner that HAS to have the foam (doesn't do anything for me... but what do I know? Customer is always right... and why would I argue with someone who wants to pay me extra money... even after I have advised the non-foam product?).
The name of the stuff is on the tip of my tongue.. and I'm sure I'll remember it about 3 am. It is 4x8 sheets that lap at all joints.
We sold two jobs with this stuff at $250/sq (siding was run of the mill). It turned out nice and wasn't a huge deal to work with. MUCH easier than the manufactured foam-backed stuff.
Would I spend the bucks to get any foam? Nope. Can't see the value in insulation value.. and some of the manufacturers are warrantying against cracking and such for lifetime (crane even warranties against baseballs, hail, and such).
There is one outfit here in town that is selling continuous siding (no mid span joints) with foam backing for 400 a square (at least that is what I have heard). I haven't looked real hard into the product... but in theory, it cuts out the PIA part of doing the jobs with manufactured foam (joints).
I hang the Crane alot and love it(for a vinyl product). This guy was pushing "Polar Wall"
My price structure is pretty much like all the rest here, and it makes money. If I were to charge $400/sq. I couldn't sleep at night, and eventually would end up on the front page of the paper with all the rest of the thieves.
This has nothing to do what your saying but ten years ago Sears was charging 625.00/sq and financing it to the Homeowner on top of that with interest and subbing it to all the siders at whatever their rate was. They were telling the Homeowner instead of coming up with paying 12,000.00 for a siding job when it was done they would only have to pay x amount $ per/month. I don't know what they're getting now.Joe Carola
Edited 3/13/2005 9:31 am ET by Framer
Yea, that's the stuff that is such a pain to work with. The scrap is high. It is one of those products that is OK in concept... but really doesn't do it in real practice.
I agree that $400 is a big number. But if you ever work with the stuff... you'll realize why it is so much. Plus... if I am not mistaken, the cost of that particular product is WAY on the high side for materials.
If I were to recommend another foam backed job... I'll stick with the sculpted foam-board that goes up first... then the siding. If the customer REALLY wanted something like polar wall... sure, I'd do it (and hire a sub that specializes in the stuff)... but not at a rate that would lose money.
As long as I have made my recommendations to the customer... that by my estimation are better and less-expensive... I have done my job for conscience. If they still want something like the polar wall... so be it. Won't be the first time I have made a recommendation and it was rejected. If they are willing to pay for it... who am I to object? I believe they will be happy with the product... nothing inherently wrong with it that I have seen. I can also comfortably stand behind the warranty.
I will refuse to use a product that I can't, in good conscience, stand behind. I refuse to use a product that is completely inferior to other products in the same category.
But why refuse to use a product simply because you couldn't justify using it for your own purposes? Some customers are just convinced that they want what they want. If I give them their options... and they choose to go a route I wouldn't go... but is still within acceptable parameters... why let the job go to someone else?
Edited 3/13/2005 11:10 am ET by Rich from Columbus
Here in Ct thats not unheard of. The cost of living in the northeast is much higher than the rest of the country. You wont get kind of money subbing. I always start with the $400 figure but that includes wrapping everything and gutters.
As for the foam insulation behind the vinyl I think thats a lot of BS. It still floats like vinyl does which means the cold air is getting behind it. There is no thermal break. What good does that do?
I hear numbers up to 450 but we are on an island and ahve this shorter northern work season. As well as high taxes and cost of living. It is possible that our houses up here are mostly 2-3 stories and cut up more than Kieth's one story mansions too.
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