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Just in case you can't open the first one.
Filling in the corner with solid framing is best. Pick a few decent studs and rip on table saw or with circular saw to the required angle(s).
I di it this way.
The advantages are -
plenty good nailing on the exterior surface
one rip on one 2x4 at an easy angle
gap inside makes for easy insulation with a can of spray foam
if wireing needs to dril through, that is easy pasage too.
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Piffin,
I'm going to assume that the rips are located on the exterior side of the wall as shown in your sketch. That is, you're showing an outside corner.
What sort of framing detail do you use for a 135-degree bend on an inside corner? I'm assuming the engineers would want to see solid blocking to effectively stitch all the sheathing together.
Edited 9/29/2007 5:00 pm ET by Ragnar17
I shouldn't speak for Pif, but I think he'll be fine. In his locale, the only "big one" to worry about is a nor'easter. The shear walls are those rock cliffs over at the southwest side of the island. Spelled s-h-e-e-r.
His detail for the bend makes the most sense of any of the alternatives, and that includes the high priced thing you can get in LSL from TrusJoist.
The "single rip at an easy angle" is the most elegant part, and would make any efficiency expert say, "why didn't I think of that?"
Thanks
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
not sure that I undserstand your Q.My sketch has two walls intersecting. One side of the walls is inside and the other is outside
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
OK, I think I get your point now. With a little attention to acuracy, those two full studs could be brought to touching at the inside vector and nailed to each other
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks, Piffin.
That should indeed work -- I was curious to find out whether you had an even better solution. :)
Great idea on the outside corner as shown in your first sketch, by the way. I'm going to pass that along to someone I know who's framing a bay this week.
That single rip is down the center of the 2x4, then flip one half over
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Been here for years and keep learning, that's why I appreciate this site and all your great advise.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Here's one I posted 7 years ago - still works. Just substitute the metal studs for wood.
View Image
Edited 9/29/2007 5:05 pm ET by RalphWicklund
Hey Ralph, Blue here.
I was looking at your picture and I immediately sensed that something was contrary to my experience because your solution seems so elegant. There would be no way that I would not have tried and used it on occasion.
I had to study for awhile to figure out what the problem is.
I think the drawing might not be to scale because I don't think that the face of the filler material would work if it was 1.5". Without doing the math, I'm fairly sure that the material would have to be 1.75", or perhaps 1.625".
One could argue that the 1/8" or 1/4" is inconsequential and I would agree. I think I've tried that method and didn't like the looks of the finished rough frame because the gaps made it look like a sloppy carpenter did it.
On the other hand, I might just be off on a wild tangent because it's been more than a year or so since I've had to fill one of those corners.
jim
Edit: When I clicked back I noticed the drawing showed metal studs. That particular technique could easily work with metal because they would be easily drawn out of their true perpindicular placement.
fka (formerly known as) blue
Edited 10/6/2007 7:01 pm ET by Jim_Allen
That's what I do too Ralph. It works perfectly.
But for an exterior wall I think I like Piffin's approach for the extra insulation.
nice! some times it's so simple it hurts
Gdcarpenter, none of the suggestions are wrong, but we don't do it like any of them. Instead, we do it as you suggest: "let the siding run by". We don't fill them. Additionally, we don't bring the two studs together tight on the inside corner.
Let me explain: We live in a cold climate and corners tend to be cold spots that condense cold air and cause sweating in winter. Consequently, we've found that if we leave a 1/2" minimum gap on the inside framing, the insulators will fill the corner. Additionally, if we add the wood filler on the outside of the angled connection, we again reduce the insulation factor.
Some could/would argue that we are building a weak corner. That argument would have merit but before I concede, I would have to ask: what forces are we fighting against that will tear the corner apart?
When you analyze the forces that might tear the corner apart, you find that there reallly aren't any. So, if there aren't any forces trying to tear it apart, why would someone want to fill it solid and reduce the insulation effectiveness?
Good practice tells us to tie the corners together in some fashion and we do. We typically install a Simpson mending plate at 24" o.c. on the inside angle. The outside is typically covered with a 1/6 trim board that we nail and glue together securely. Together, those two additional layers of connectivity combine to make a very secure angled corner and we have never had a call back on any that we have done. Even if the outside corner is brick, I do not feel that we are creating a situation that needs attention. In those rare cases that I did think additional fastening was needed, we simply add a couple more simpson mending plates on the outside angle before we sheath.
I've got a couple of clever methods of adding sheathing on these bays, especially when they are covered with foam.
jim
fka (formerly known as) blue
There you go teaching me to think outside the box again, darn you - just when I had the box all tidied up.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
enjoyed your post Jim...just when I thought you'd forgotten about simpson, you mention it in the next sentence. Most houses I've framed they engineer for the "Big One" we havn't had anything other than tiny tremors in my lifetime, and very, very rarely. But the small scale shake that happened in Seattle few years ago, reminded us you just never know. View Image View Image
Alrightythen, I can't speak intelligently about any conditions in seismic country, so I'll defer any opinion about the need for solid corners to those experts that live in those regions.
But....before I totally bow out of the conversation, let's first think about this: typically, when I've framed bays, the walls tend to be somewhat incidental to the main structural framework of the main house and outside walls. Bay walls tend to be small addons that really wouldn't seriously affect the structural integrity of the main structure even if they were completely shaken off the base and tossed into the yard. If the main house didn't succumb, I'd expect to see a big ole' gaping hole where the beefy headers of the bay opening held the two adjoining main walls together.
Piffin, sorry about dragging you out of that box....it was getting too small for you anyways!
I've got some shocking news: I've converted and now believe that it is necessary to put tar paper under shingles! I still dont' think they are needed in Michigan, but they certainly are needed here in Texas. Next discussion about felt and I'll tell a little Texas rain story!
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
So you finally made it to Texas? Have you discussed this in another thread yet?
No Mike, I dont' think that my move to Texas warrants anything much more than a sidenote. I did briefly explain a few things inthe recent thread titled "Chief Talk".
jimfka (formerly known as) blue
We cut our plates at 22.5 degrees and center a stud on the joint. this gives me plenty of nailing for my outside ply and just enough to screw my rock to inside. no insulation problems either.
Edited 10/7/2007 9:48 pm ET by Splurt
This is the method I have used for years to cut the plates for bays. These cuts are for the bottom and top plates, the top, top plate is cut with a long 45 deg. cut so it can tie the walls together. The first stud in from the corner can be moved away from the corner studs enough to place insulation if need be. Sheathing ties the two walls together.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I agree with that thought too Splurt.
We used to do that for the inside partitions but we got tired of trying to explain why it makes sense. For anyting I do for myself, I only put one stud centered on the angle. For builders, we put two with a filler.
The bays are different though because 99 times out of a 100, all the bay studs are also window studs...so even if we put a stud on the joint, it still would be flanked by a king stud and trimmer on both sides. To me, the addition of the fifth stud would be problematic for two reasons: it would still interfere with the insulation effort and more importantly, it would probably cause me to have to rip 1x8 for trim on the outside rather than the 1x6 that typically fits using our typical system.
I might be wrong.....I haven't trimmed a bay in at least two years.
jimfka (formerly known as) blue