Is there such a thing as over compaction for a driveway base? I have 3/4″ drain tile, about 2″ thick, as a top coat for my 600′ driveway. The base is processed gravel. With the ground thawing now…in CT…I want to roll it to help compact the loose stone, especially on the 20* slope. I will be using a IR model#? vibrating, single drum, rubber tire rig. This will be the first time that I’ve used this type of equipment.
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Edited 2/29/2004 10:34:01 AM ET by bob
Replies
warm enema...fix ya right up
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
bet that special thermos mix will do a better job A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
You... Go to your room. Not only do you not get desert there are no visitation priviledges either...
and leave my thermos out of this...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Again??????????? A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Still.... Nobody let ya from the 1st time...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
That's what you thought... I bribed the hall monitor, she was easy A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
No answer here. Please post your results. I'm skeptical.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
can you over compact? Yes. The surface will start pumping due to pulling moisture from below into top surface. Pumping is when the soil moves when walk or drive on. Will that equpiment over compact, not likely, its possible but barely.
I have expierenced over compaction, or so I've been told....when I used a plate compactor to tamp the base for my block wall, a few areas caused the compactor to vibrate severely. I was told, that is what it was and no cause for concern. But I wondered if it would have any affect on plans for future blacktop with the driveway. Seems it would help more than hurt. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
With your driveway expierence, I thought at least you would know <g>
Skeptical...why? A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Skeptical...why?
Sorry to disappoint you. I've learned a bit about slopes, but stone is still a mystery. My minor experiences at attempted compaction on slopes as steep as your driveway were not successful. But we're talking different substrate and likely different stone. Certainly a different compaction machine as I was using 14 tons sitting on 10 tires. That's why I was eager to hear your results.
I would very much like to learn a better method of stone surfacing. Asphalt ain't gonna happen here. The traditional method of laying/compacting stone on flat ground hasn't worked for me on my milder slopes. And you're dealing with more slope than I consider advisable.
Monday we'll be surveying a new driveway to rise 400+' in about ½ mile. Max slope will be 15%. Come on down if you have the time.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Monday we'll be surveying a new driveway to rise 400+' in about ½ mile. Max slope will be 15%. Come on down if you have the time.
I would love to take you up on that offer, would be real interesting to see. I've got next week off too, but way too much work to get done...like a major kitchen remod...my first one!! Maybe another time. Since springs almost here, I also want to regrade the drive after plowin with a loader all winter, if you know what I mean! Experience has taught me that the best time around here to roll/compact the driveway, is during spring thaw. After that time, the driveway dries up and it's as solid as concrete. I'm planning on rolling it next weekend... I've got that rig reserved for then. I'll let you know how it works out.
I posted the question about compaction because my desire for perfection would allow me to roll it for 2 full days!!...up and down, up and down, etc <G>. Now I'll need to pay closer attention to what the ground is doing, based on a few comments here. But I'm fairly certain that I won't cause any harm by repeated rolling as I know what the base is made of. Just hope I can bind the drain tile on the slope a little more...probably wishful thinking, I'm sure. I've also got 4-5yds of stone dust to add, if I needed. Other than the slope, the rest of the driveway is mint...meaning everything stays in its place, nice and neat, unless you screw it up when plowing snow LOL
And you're dealing with more slope than I consider advisable.
Let's not go down that road again<BG> It doesn't seem that bad, you just need to pay attention when going up or down. But it does intimidate the ones who aren't familiar with it. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Suppose there were no gravel. Suppose you invented a mystical voodoo scraper blade that allowed you to sculpt the whole driveway out of solid rock and leave a high traction surface on it. Would there be any disadvantage to having a solid rock driveway? I suppose over compacted gravel would have the same disadvantages, if there are any.
Good point. Never thought of it that way. Can't see any real disadvantage. But the one thing that comes to mind about solid rock would be... slick when wet unless it was pourus or rough surfaced. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Another reason for asking is: if over compacted, there would be insufficient air space for drainage. With that in mind, would I create more problems by allowing more surface runoff? which could possibly cause ponding in the low spots or even errosion problems of the outer 10'wide bank. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Yes,
You can over compact.
In some soils and under some weather conditions.
If you could compact any soil to the point that it transforms into rock it would no longer be over compacted, because, it would no longer be soil.
SamT
That's why I specified a high traction surface.
To get 100% compaction, no voids, you'd have to have a range of all different particle sizes. The smallest particles are clay, so unless you have a significant amount of clay in your gravel, you'll never hit 100%.
Pressure... Yeah, I seem to remember that's how they make rock. Get a bunch of dirt and/or sand and let the ocean organize all the little particles in nice layers and then jamb the whole mess a bunch of miles into the earth. When it pops up again, you have rock - somewhere between slate and granite depending upon how far down it got and how hot it got while it was down there. Don't know the details as I never really took geology, but someone could probably tell you how many PSI it would take for you to end up with your rock driveway.
Thanks guys, you've answered my question... with great detail too. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Good point. Never thought of it that way. Can't see any real disadvantage. But the one thing that comes to mind about solid rock would be... slick when wet unless it was pourus or rough surfaced.
Here, I do have some experience. Both with rock, and concrete, which is pretty close. The rock was so slippery with rain that I poured concrete with 1" tall ^^^^^^, angled to direct the water off the side. Worked great until it rained, then it was marginally better than the smooth rock.
Snow was even more fun. One of my perennial hunters in his new truck hit it with snow. Lost all control and went sledding toward the dropoff, accelerating. He closed his eyes and kissed his azz goodbye. Then his truck got off the concrete, hit a small gravel stretch, and his locked up wheels found some bite. Not sure of the condition of his underwear, but he was relieved to be otherwise unhurt.
This was on a now-discontinued 30% slope. Anybody wanting some fun, I have some good locations.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
we had a post couple weeks ago about this, Rock can be compacted if there fines. but stone, like river stone cannot be compacted, it will keep moving.rolling around. The best base has stone, clay, silt and sand mix together.
Drainage. You do not want voids for drainage, this create a freeze area, so on roadway 100% compaction is desireable. DO NOT CONFUSE 100% compaction, standard spec with 95 % that differnent subject.
If you do compactthe drive it will vastly improve the life of the asphalt drive.
Plate tamps are not compaction equipment , they are design for making top surface look pretty. there is no enough force or weight to efficenty compact soil. they are made to make sand and asphalt look pretty.
Rock can be compacted if there fines. but stone, like river stone cannot be compacted, it will keep moving.rolling around. The best base has stone, clay, silt and sand mix together.
Apparently I was unclear. That slippery rock, was a rock, as in bedrock. The stone/dust mix that the professional roadbuilder put on top was long gone, to my relief as it was far more slippery than the (bed) rock.
I followed the previous thread.
My small experience is that stone with dust works well. Washed stone generally doesn't. This is on slopes. Can't imagine why anyone would use river stone on a slope, unless they embedded it in concrete to keep it from rolling. Even then it'd be slippery when wet.
What I have understood to be the best road was large crushed stone, to provide drainage, covered by crushed stone with dust. No? Compaction necessary. That was the problem, getting compaction on a slope. I don't own a vibratory roller, although I wouldn't mind if it worked on a slope. When discussing my problems with every roadbuilder I could drag out here, they were unanimous about not being able to compact my driveway. This is what bob's up against, although mine was substantially steeper.
Locally, apart from the hills, red clay is common. Washed crushed stone works fine with it, assuming decent water content of the clay. My (incompetent) roadbuilder was of the mindset that one always starts off with large washed crushed stone, followed by stone with dust.
Works many places, but was a catastrophe here. I had large crushed stone, uncompacted, that ripped my tires to shreds every 3 months. I now have half the slope and use only crushed stone with dust, which works pretty well. Always ready to hear better ideas. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Lost all control and went sledding toward the dropoff, accelerating. He closed his eyes and kissed his azz goodbye.
Man O' Man...do I know the feeling!! During the 96/97 winter here, had 2-3" of ice on the slope. My new 97 K15 Chevy was only a couple weeks old and I started to drive down. Did the same thing before with my 85 K5 Blazer, and with no problem other than a little free slide close to the bottom. Well with the 97, about 1/3 down, it turned ugly..scared the bejeepers out of me. The truck got a mind of its own and started heading to the outside edge. I really thought I was goin over!!! Luckily when the LF tire dropped over the edge, it stopped. Finally got the nerve to get out and was shaking so bad, I thought I was having a seizure!!! Think I was still shacking the next day!!! After busting some frozen rocks loose from my rock pile, I blocked all the wheels. Then I used a pick ax to chop a path for the tires all the way back up. Used a winch and 4X4 lo range to get back on the drive and back up to the house. Haven't gone thru that since then, and hope I never do again!! Now you might understand why I widened it from 9' to 30'. A bad day at home is stind hopell better than a good day at work
>> Now you might understand why I widened it from 9' to 30'.
Yeah, and now you understand why Tom thinks your driveway is too steep.
Yeah, I have to admit, I do understand...somewhat. However, I felt it was worth every bit of the $$ and effort to widen it...feels a whole lot safer now. I still have the option of increasing the lower level elevation, which would help to decrease the slope angle. But, at 30' wide, this would create other problems, along with the $$ needed...the DW thinks I've spent more than enough already<G>
Maybe I should hold off on plans for blacktop, until I give some more consideration to this slope thing. You guys here, really have some great knowledge and worthwhile information and that's why it's 4:20AM now and I'm still here. But not for long...time to hit the sack, later.... A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Yeah, and now you understand why Tom thinks your driveway is too steep.
Tom is now believing that bob's driveway is no steeper than the one Tom has, likely less steep. There's also a huge difference in driveway substrate.
I'm going up a mountain (or what passes for one in Va-I attended CU briefly-NOT with the football program). There's a reason the mountain's here. That's a rock underneath there. When you cut a driveway you remove the highly weathered rock and get down to something pretty firm. Already pretty compacted, if you will. Getting crushed stone to go into it doesn't happen easily. I settle for unwashed crushed stone on top. Works pretty well as long as the drainage is correct.
Terrified visitors here made the mistake of looking over the edge, always from the passenger seat. It's a ways down and I dislike guardrails. Even 15' wide would have given me upwards of a 20' tall cut. No thanks.
When I plow, I try to leave an inch of snow on the road. Beats replacing the stone. In Va, with a sunny driveway, ice is rarely an issue. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
You can definitely overcompact soils.
I'm not sure what you mean by "3/4-inch drain tile", but I'll make some general observations on soil compaction that you can probably adapt to your circumstances.
A good driveway base is made of well-graded materials that exhibit good bearing competence and enough cohesive properties to stay where you put it and bear traffic.
Typically this means a material we call base-course. It's a mixture of everything from rock chips about 3/8" to fines. The best base-course (state-spec) is made from fully-fractured aggregate and does not contain excessive fines.
When you compact such a material, if you are at optimal moisture content using the appropriate compaction equipment on properly sized lifts, you will quickly hit maximum density. Stop there, more is not better.
Attempting further compaction will (with a big enough machine) shatter the previously compacted material. It will suddenly not be compacted anymore.
The bad news is that the only way to fix this is rip it up, re-wet it, scarify it, let it dry back to optimal, and recompact it. Way more than twice as expensive.
The exception to this is highly cohesive, poorly-graded materials with high plasticity. Like excessive fines or clay.
Then you get exactly what Brownbagg was describing to you. "Pumping" is best described as a near-liquefaction of the soils, caused by doing exactly as he warned about. You can drive the material down and displace the water up, suddenly the whole area around the machine looks like jello. Same cure -- rip it up, dry it out, and start over.
On drainage; you need to pitch the driveway to drain. There are exceptions, but they are fairly complex and expensive. Easier and cheaper to let gravity be your friend.
DRC
When you compact such a material, if you are at optimal moisture content using the appropriate compaction equipment on properly sized lifts, you will quickly hit maximum density. Stop there, more is not better
Attempting further compaction will (with a big enough machine) shatter the previously compacted material. It will suddenly not be compacted anymore.
Interesting and valuable points you've made. Thanks, I'll keep them in mind. I'm confident the base material is correct, but the amount of compaction may not be-see 40548.25 for a description of what I've done...which is why I'd like to use a vibrating roller. I don't have the model # or GVW, but I will get them and possibly you could give some input regarding it. I surely don't want to create any problems, just tighten things up a bit. The lower level of the drive, at the base area of the slope, does show signs of minor 'pumping'. But only after plowing snow with a loader, which tends to scrape the 3/4" crushed stone(drain tile) away, do I notice it. With the spring thaw, melting snow, and possibly an accumulation of some fine silt from runoff, leads me to think that's why it is somewhat liquid...but only about the top 1". Under that, it's rock solid...I've checked in many places. The rest of the year the driveway is rock solid...even during or after heavy monsoon rains. The driveway does pitch to the outside for drainage and it works great, but I have a makeshift gutter system on the outside of the driveway edge, consisting of hay bales placed end to end. This is to control erosion of the outer bank and its slope, until I get some ground cover growing. Just wood chips/mulch mixture there now. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Bob, I think your driveway is already in much better shape than most. It sounds to me like you have a good base and have been bringing in the right materials. Here's another thought to consider.
When a road has all the right materials, but time, winter, and traffic has redistributed them to the wrong place, you can still have a mess. Fortunately, it's easy to fix.
An operator who has a good feel for a motor grader can usually straighten out a driveway like this in no time. The smaller machines (12' moldboard) fit nicely on long driveways, and can get you within about 1/8" of where you need to be.
The first pass in each direction cuts your bar ditch at the edge of the driveway and pitches the good material back in, the next two passes set your grade, the last pass sets the crown height, roll it out, and you are done for about two years.
A skilled operator can decide how much aggregate to bring up or bury. The result is that you get to re-use all that good material you bought, and your compaction should be right on the money working in such shallow lifts. More than anything, you reestablish proper drainage, which is actually far more important than compaction in this case.
One person on a grader and one on a 60" single-drum vibratory roller with about 15,000# dynamic weight should be abe to knock this out in about half a day unless you have a real mess underneath. Find a good hand on a grader, no reason why you can't run the roller, and it should be cheap, too. (I rarely say that. <G>)
Then if you like you can top the whole thing with fractured stone, dump-spread about 1" thick.
When you rent the roller, ask the yard person to show you how to adjust the harmonics. The frequency and amplitude of the vibration makes a big difference, depending upon the material. You'll figure it out quickly -- as soon as you hit the right harmonic for the material you are working with it will tighten right up.
DRC
A skilled operator can decide how much aggregate to bring up or bury. The result is that you get to re-use all that good material you bought,
This is certainly the case. In over half the repairs I've done, no new stone was required, to the astonishment of the owners.
One thing I learned quite awhile ago is that a blade on a farm tractor isn't much in comparison to a road grader. Even my grader, which was originally horse-drawn. Bob's driveway is large enough to be able to use a full-size grader, one of the cheap ones.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
One thing I learned quite awhile ago is that a blade on a farm tractor isn't much in comparison to a road grader.
Really? Maybe I'll look into one of those. I've had good luck using a york rake, but that is only for leveling the drain tile/top coat. If I didn't have the slope or make such a mess plowing snow sometimes, I'm not so sure even backblading wouldn't be all that I needed to do. The base seems to be good and solid. That's why I'm hoping the roller will help lock the drain tile as tight as the base. I'm anxious to see if it helps!
Tom is now believing that bob's driveway is no steeper than the one Tom has, likely less steep.
Could be, but remember...at first I only made a guesstimate-45*(way off I see <g>) then it was the GPS comedy show(LMAO..what a joke that thing was), and lastly the speed square...it should be somewhat close, no? Yeah, I know, get the right tool...or as you once said: KISS...LOL. Either way, it's still a PITA to maintain. Good thing I had a pro offer some assist when I did the major rework in 2002. His help with the lower level grade elevation made a huge difference. Sure wish I had before pics. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Really? Maybe I'll look into one of those. I've had good luck using a york rake, but that is only for leveling the drain tile/top coat.
Really. I also have a 3 pt hitch farmer-built blade that has two huge steel wheels behind the blade ('54 Ford frame turned backwards). It's a great improvement over a std blade. The road grader does an even better job of smoothing, moving stone, and particularly, ditching. Much better control. Last full-size grader I was offered was all of $500, 12' blade. Brakes leaked but everything else worked. 45 yrs old so practically no resale value even though they'd recently spent a lot of money getting the diesel right. In fact, if I hadn't found a new home for it, the subdivision probably would still own it. They were too cheap to pay me to operate and maintain it. They haven't exactly saved money since.
Could be, but remember...at first I only made a guesstimate-45*(way off I see <g>) then it was the GPS comedy show(LMAO..what a joke that thing was), and lastly the speed square...it should be somewhat close, no?
Probably. I fondly remember your travails. <G> And I still think there must be a straight 2x4 and a level somewhere in your neighborhood. My experience is that a 20% driveway will have a high proportion of 2wd drivers spinning tires and continually knocking the stone loose, apparently not your experience. OTOH, I'm no expert about stone. And maybe I've never seen proper placement. The quarry says I'm doing it correctly and have good results.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
To bad you don't have that grader anymore, I'd probably be interested in it. $500 and everything worked?...so what the brakes leaked, that can be fixed. I've never had the opportunity to try one, but I'd sure like to play with one someday. Around here, used equip is either: way overpriced or so used/abused, it's only good for parts.
My experience is that a 20% driveway will have a high proportion of 2wd drivers spinning tires and continually knocking the stone loose, apparently not your experience.
That's what burns my azz...nobody knows how to drive up without tearing things up so much. If I don't babysit the slope and keep it groomed, it turns into an oversized washboard. Used to have a UPS driver that thought if he had a good running start, he could sail up...instead all he did was bounce and churn, making one serious mess. Chewed him out so many times, I think he switched routes...
The trick I've found is to shift to 1st gear/manual 1 and leave it there. Get a little speed going and keep a steady momentum, and you'll cruise right up most of the time. Most people just leave it in drive and by the time they hit the hill, the trans has shifted into second. Then when the engine bogs down around mid way up, they give it more juice which causes the trans to downshift back to first. This results in tire spin and spitting stone. This gets repeated on a daily basis and is enough to make me want to rip someone's freakin heart out!!...Sorry, just venting a little<g> At least after I showed my DW and daughter this technique, they now drive up with minimal damage...sometimes.
Maybe I'm wasting my time, but I'm still going to try and see if the vibrating roller makes any difference. I doubt it will harm anything unless over compaction occurs, if it can. Hey....isn't that why I started this thread? :-) A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
so what the brakes leaked, that can be fixed. I've never had the opportunity to try one, but I'd sure like to play with one someday. Around here, used equip is either: way overpriced or so used/abused, it's only good for parts.
Dropping the blade will slow one down effectively. Actually the HO assoc. offered to give it to me in exchange for driveway maintenance. Shocked, shocked! when I refused it. Too big for my driveway, too big for any trailer I want to own, and I'd have been responsible for maintenance, not to mention liability. If you beat the bushes you might be surprised what's hiding out there. It's a matter of who you know. This one was state-retired maybe 30 yrs ago.
That's what burns my azz...nobody knows how to drive up without tearing things up so much. If I don't babysit the slope and keep it groomed, it turns into an oversized washboard. Used to have a UPS driver that thought if he had a good running start, he could sail up...instead all he did was bounce and churn, making one serious mess. Chewed him out so many times, I think he switched routes...
Oops. I misunderstood, thought you didn't have these problems. You're steeper than I'd given you credit for. If you were below 15% there wouldn't be much of an issue. Let us know how the compaction works out. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I'll have to start beatin on bushes instead of the UPS guys...lol
The roller will be here Friday afternoon and I'm anxious to see what it can do...first time on one of these rigs. Wonder how it will handle the slope? The drum is in front and the rear has AG(?) tires, might be the drive axle and steering. These things got brakes?? I sure hope so!!
I'll post some pics this weekend, seein how I have a digital camera now. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
"...a blade on a farm tractor isn't much in comparison to a road grader."
As an old farm boy, I almost took exception to that. But it's mostly true I guess. The grader is set up for grading, so it naturally does a better job of it. But there are a lot more tractors out there than road graders.
I can do a lot with a tractor and blade. But I've had a heck of a lot of experience with them too.
One trick I learned is to angle the blade, and alternate directions. Like pull the right side of the blade up close to the tractor and drive down the right side of the road as you grade. This pulls stuff in towards the center to crown the road.
Next time you blade the road, pull the LEFT side of the blade up close to the tractor and drive down the LEFT side of the road. That keeps the tractor and blade from creating washboards.
If you get too much crown, run down the center of the road with the blade straight. That knocks down the ridge, but still leaves a crown at the edges for drainage.Grown men do not need leaders. [Edward Abbey]
As an old farm boy, I almost took exception to that. But it's mostly true I guess.
Didn't intend to offend. Clearly one can get a good result with a blade, it's just several more passes. And ditching really is better with a grader. You can offset the blade farther. Also, my grader allows the operator to steer the rear wheels to make grading curves inline with the tow vehicle. Not a small issue here. It's an amazing piece of (originally horse drawn) machinery. Mine also distinctly shortens the new driveway time necessary with my track loader, no dozer lives here.
For bob, switching to a grader would mean a much shorter learning curve to proficiency. Not to mention a 12' blade, rather than whatever his box has. Mostly, suspending the blade between axles, rather than hanging off the end, makes any grading error half or less, reducing the necessity of repeat passes. Disturbing more road surface than absolutely necessary doesn't help.
I got my grader before a blade, figuring I wouldn't spend any more money. I didn't. Previous experience with a blade told me that I could do OK, just take longer. After I got the grader, I found I could not only finish in fewer passes, but also did a better job.
You may very well be more proficient with a blade than I am, but I was familiar with your suggestions. And they work. I'm also pretty sure that if you gave a grader a spin you'd be pleasantly surprised. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
"I'm also pretty sure that if you gave a grader a spin you'd be pleasantly surprised. "
Actually, I have driven graders. And I love 'em. And I know they do a better job and all.
My point was that not many people have access to a grader. The only one I have access to right now is a 36,000# Dresser. Not exactly something you pull on a trailer behind your pickup. But a neat toy.
But I have access to probably 10 or 12 different farm tractors and blades.
I think we're saying kind of the same thing, but from different perspectives. I suspect you're looking more at working on driveways for a living, in which case a small grader would make more sense.
But for the average guy just taking care of their own drive, a tractor and blade make more sense. Can't mow the back 40 with a grader. (-:It was as bad as being up a creek in a barbed wire canoe.
I think we're saying kind of the same thing, but from different perspectives. I suspect you're looking more at working on driveways for a living, in which case a small grader would make more sense.
Pretty much. But I only buy machinery for my use. If somebody wants me to come out, well, I don't mind taking a little money. For instance, my pull-behind grader cost me $350, delivered. That large diesel grader went to a buddy, who drove it home for $500. These are blade prices, to get a machine that, as you mentioned, works better. I keep things decidedly low end so if it sits for a month or several, no problem.
Driveway surveys I like to do. Installations and repairs less so. Tractors are real exciting at first. After awhile they're noisy, smelly things that do great work, but operating one isn't something that I particularly enjoy.
My grader search and purchase was based on the assumption that I could get one for the price of a decent blade. It worked. I'd rather have a small motorized one, but view spending that much money like most HO's do. Can't justify it. The large old motorized ones are cheap, assuming one can utilize it. I can't. Bob could. For the price of a blade, he could let it sit 364 days of the year with minimal maintenance. Or add chains and do a much better job of clearing his driveway. And maybe he has neighbors who also have appropriate driveways.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Can't justify it. The large old motorized ones are cheap, assuming one can utilize it. I can't. Bob could. For the price of a blade, he could let it sit 364 days of the year with minimal maintenance. Or add chains and do a much better job of clearing his driveway. And maybe he has neighbors who also have appropriate driveways.
I sure could justify it. Besides, there's a few other driveways in my area that could probably use some help. But if I did have one, I'll bet it probably wouldn't sit for 364 days. <G> A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
But for the average guy just taking care of their own drive, a tractor and blade make more sense. Can't mow the back 40 with a grader
Geez Boss...you had to go and spoil it. I was hoping I could hang a couple belly mowers under it. That way, my DW would understand why I also need a grader. ;-) A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
I was hoping I could hang a couple belly mowers under it. That way, my DW would understand why I also need a grader. ;-)
If you really want to do it all with one machine, other than what you have, I think Unimogs have everything available. Gonna run you a little more than what I was proposing however.
My truck, a duece-and-a-half, has live power front and back and is also heavy enough to carry anything. But you'd be on your own for figuring how to get it all attached. The guy who sold me my crawler dreamed of haying with one. Don't know if he ever did.
The possibilities really are close to endless and not necessarily costly, other than a Unimog.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
If you really want to do it all with one machine
No, not really, I was just jokin around. My current machine does just about everything I need it to around here. If I need the big guns, my BIL can hook me up with a backhoe, excavator, dozer, etc. Wish he had access to a vibrating roller though, then I wouldn't have rent one....kinda like: If it's free, it's for me! <VBG>
Now if I could get my hands on a $500 grader with everything working.... then that's another story. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Also, my grader allows the operator to steer the rear wheels to make grading curves inline with the tow vehicle.
This grader thing is starting to sound better and better...4 wheel strg?? Awsome...pulling the blade or rake next to my makeshift gutter system(hay bales) is a PITA, never mind trying to negotiate the curve.
For bob, switching to a grader would mean a much shorter learning curve to proficiency. Not to mention a 12' blade
I hear that...less time learning is more time producing. Plus with a 12' blade, a couple passes on my 18' drive and I'd be done. My 6' takes way too long.
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Next time you blade the road, pull the LEFT side of the blade up close to the tractor and drive down the LEFT side of the road. That keeps the tractor and blade from creating washboards.
Seems I need more tractor weight or something...even with the 3pt hydralics holding the rake or blade down, I still have washboards. If I ease up on the cut depth, it's not an issue...just takes longer. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
"Seems I need more tractor weight or something...even with the 3pt hydralics holding the rake or blade down, I still have washboards."
Are you sure you're doing like I suggested? If you alternate blade angle and the side of the road you're driving on, the blade isn't at the same angle (relative to the road surface) each time.
The weight of the tractor and/or blade have little to do with it. When you're blading gravel, it's actually better to support the blade a bit with the 3 point. Don't just drag it along.
If it's bouncing, change speeds or hold it up a bit more.Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself
Yes I alternate angle and direction. Just seems every now and then, I end up with a mother load in front of the blade. Found speed and cut depth are mostly the cause...lighten up on both and it's not as bad. I thought that maybe the GVW had something to do with it. My New Holland is only about 4500#. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
"Just seems every now and then, I end up with a mother load in front of the blade."
Sounds like maybe you need to carry the blade a little more. It's kinda like sanding wood - More light passes are better than less heavy passes.
As for speed, I generally go at about walk speed. Any faster and it's hard to keep tabs on what the blade is doing.Q: Why don't women blink during foreplay?A: They don't have time.
Are you sure you're doing like I suggested? If you alternate blade angle and the side of the road you're driving on, the blade isn't at the same angle (relative to the road surface) each time.
I think you and bob are talking about different pieces of equipment. Far as I understand, he doesn't own an adjustable blade, just a box scraper. Which would explain his problems with the washboard. He'd have to drive diagonally across the driveway.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Really?
In post #40548.58 he said: "Yes I alternate angle and direction." So I assumed he had a regular blade.
I know he mentioned a "york rake" once, but I don't know what that is. Maybe a regional term?I'm really easy to get along with once you people learn to worship me.
Boss, do you think he has a "Draft" control..my 8N had it and till I learned what it was plowin and discin was a challange..
A york rake is a wide curved tine drag rake..good for preppin for final seeding.of grass..
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do you think he has a "Draft" control
Yes...I think he does, but probably doesn't use it <G>
A york rake is a wide curved tine drag rake..good for preppin for final seeding.of grass..
...and leveling/regrading crushed stone driveways too. Now pass me some of Imerc's rocket fuel...all this talk about dirt movers has made me thirsty.
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Edited 3/3/2004 1:51:21 AM ET by bob
Really?
I've been wrong before. But he plowed with a bucket. The only reason I'd know is: no back angled blade.
Like Sphere said, the york rake's a rake. Often used to collect rocks and debris.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I think you and bob are talking about different pieces of equipment. Far as I understand, he doesn't own an adjustable blade, just a box scraper.
Sorry if I confused you guys...sometimes I don't always include all the facts or forget that terms around here might be different than what some of you are familiar with. One thing I have noticed is that some of you guys can speak a little, yet communicate a lot. For me, it's the opposite...LOL
Anyway, back to the subject...I have both, a York rake-AKA landscape rake and a rear adjustable blade. No boxscraper here. With the blade on the rear of the tractor, it's a PITA to plow snow due to the total length. With the loader, it takes a little longer but less hassle. Plus the ability to move large piles of snow and dump them over the bank, makes life easier.
To regrade the crushed stone drive after snow season, I prefer the rake over the blade. Don't ask why...it just seems to do a better job. Plus, the rake has the adjustable wheels too. Maybe the draft control deal is the problem, I'm not sure. The operators manual is real vague about how to set up/use draft control, so I don't really bother with it. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
"With the blade on the rear of the tractor, it's a PITA to plow snow due to the total length."
Not really sure what you mean there. I can't imagine plowing snow with a loader instead of a blade. But maybe that's just because I've never done it.
You might have some success with using BOTH for plowing snow. The blade provides some weight over the rear wheels for traction when pushing with the loader. And the loader adds weight to the front end to help you steer when using the blade.
If you're using the "float" position with the blade on the 3 point, that's probably a lot of your problem. Use the position control instead. Let the blade all the way down until the top link compresses against the tractor. Then slowly raise it until vou've just almost picked up the blade. That's the best position for blading gravel. Then tweak it up and down a hair as you need to.
You should carry the whole blade a bit when plowing snow, of course. I wouldn't use the float position for that either. (Actually, I don't know whay you'd use the float position at all)
The draft control is only used when you're using a tillage implement, like a plow. The compression in the top link will cause the tractor to raise the implement if it's pulling too hard. That allows you to regulate the working depth by adjusting the draft control.
What you're calling a "york rake" is what I would call a "landscape rake". Never heard of using one for gravel though.
So is any of this stuff we're telling you actually helping?Just when you think you've won the rat race along come faster rats
So is any of this stuff we're telling you actually helping?
Thats funny Boss...maybe he went out at 3 AM..and played with his toplink..
(Sorrry Bob)
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"...maybe he went out at 3 AM..and played with his toplink..."
That doesn't seem likely, since I didn't post that until after 6am.Forget about world peace. Visualize using your turn signal
oooops, my bad. more coffee needed.
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maybe he went out at 3 AM..and played with his toplink
Not a chance...at 3 AM, I was using my bottom link...works better for sowin seed!!!!
LMAO
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Not really sure what you mean there.
Total machine length with the loader and rear blade is about 20'. Turning around with that length is a pain. If you could see the situation here, you'd know what I mean. Sorry for the confusion... I've been trying to say more with less words, but it doesn't seem to be working too good. ;-)
So is any of this stuff we're telling you actually helping?
Definitely...what you said about the 'float' position with the rear blade, and the top link compression part was interesting too. Didn't really look at it much. Maybe I did have the relief valve set correctly once, and didn't know it. But as I told Sphere, if I set it as the manual says, then the relief valve would blow when the arms were raised. Now that I've got the gist of things, I'll give it another shot. All of my experience is from 'on the job training', but with the tips I've gotten from you guys, I think I know what is causing the problem. Thanks
BTW...plowing with a front end loader is not hard, try it sometime. The only hassle is spillage out both sides of the bucket...have to keep making passes to clean up. Wish I bought the front blade, instead of the rear one. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Just a couple more thoughts.
Since I can't see your situation, I don't know why the length of the machine is a problem. Although you should generally ony have to turn around at the ENDS of the drive, shouldn't you?
Does your loader frame have a quick attach? If so, you might be able to buy a front blade that will hook right up with little hassle. Depends on the brand and type of hookup.
How about plowing with BOTH the loader and front blade? Swing the blade off to the side, if it has that option. And use it to clean up whatever the loader spills out the side.
I don't generally like working with loadders, as you can never see what's going on in front of the bucket. I have spent a considerabler amount of time in one though. The most memorable was spending 3 or 4 hours digging through a 1/2 mile long drift in a road.
I can't figure out what you mean about a "relief valve" on the 3 point. Never seen a tractor with anything like that.I can put my legs behind my head, which can be very useful in some situations [Kayleigh Pearson]
The relief valve works is for the control valve spool, for the 3pt hydraulics. I'll post some text from the manual about it for you, later on...today or tonight. I'm on my way out the door, right now...
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
I can't figure out what you mean about a "relief valve" on the 3 point. Never seen a tractor with anything like that.
The pressure relief valve is common on any hydraulic system. Its purpose is to prevent excessive pressure build up, which you probably already know. My 3pt operates off a manifold block...where its relief valve is located...that is fed by high pressure from the hydraulic pump.
The problem that I encountered after adjusting the position control linkage.... when the arms were raised, the relief valve should not be audible (not exhausting), but it was. If I readjusted the linkage to eliminate the relief valve from exhausting, then the lift arms would not fully raise. So I just set it as the manual states, and tweaked it to eliminate the relief noise. Haven't touched it since. If I use the draft position, it seems to still be in float, since I can lift the rear implement somewhat when the tractors running...it shouldn't, right? So it appears that there's no hydraulic down force on the lift arms. Maybe the position control adjustment is not related to the down force, I'm not sure. Here's what the manual says:
The system's position control feature maintains the selected height or depth of three point linkage equipment in relation to the tractor. Position control provides easy, accurate control of three point linkage equipment which operates above the ground, such as rakes, mowers, etc. It also provides uniform depth when using a blade or similar ground engaging equipment. The length of the position control rod is critical and careful adjustment must be observed for proper operation. If the control rod is adjusted too short , the control valve spool will remain in the raised position when the lift arms have reached their maximum height and the system relief valve will blow. If the control rod is too long, the control valve spool will return to neutral before the lift arms reach their full height. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
I am not aware of any of the smaller compact tractor's that come equipped with down force on the 3-pt - or at least not on any of the older 4x4 compacts that I researched a few years ago before buying my well used Ford 1900. There are aftermarket hydraulic cylinder kits that can be adapted to various tractors to provide down lift. However, on small tractors you don't have a lot of weight to transfer from the drive wheel to the implement if you want to continue moving...
If you aren't aware of Tractors by Net discussion board, it might be a good place to get some additional advice. It is a pretty active board, although I haven't followed it for a while. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ There are also other forums dealing with specific makes such as Yanmar. I used to participate in the Yanmar forum on Yahoo but haven't checked in for quite a while. I could probably dig up the link if you are interested and can't find it.
According to the manual and the dealer where I bought it, my 99 New Holland does have draft control. But the tractor weight is the limiting factor.
That link you gave was awsome and could be very useful, saved it to my favorites too. I was able to confirm something that's been bugging me about the pedal locations... to steer with rear brakes is not practical, since the hydrostatic and brake pedals are on the same side. Looks like I'll have to register so I can find out more about the draft control issue. I'll try and search for the Yanmar forum too.
Thanks again A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
I've never worked with a New Holland tractor, so I don't know how the 3 point operates on your tractor. But from what you've described, it sounds like something's out of whack.
You mention the system seems to be in "float" when you use draft position. Based on other tractors I've used, I'd say that would be correct. You give up your position control in that case, and it's either all the way up or all the way down.
One thing I don't think we've discussed is back blading. If you spin the blade around 180° and drag it, you can smooth out minor ridges in gravel without pulling up a big pile of the stuff in front of the blade. Works good for the last pass or 2 to finish it off.
If you don't have enough traction to plow snow with your blade, I wonder if your blade is to light. How big is it - 5'? Or 6' ? Is it a cheap $250 job?
I bought a 7' blade for my tractor that runs about $1,000. It's rated for tractors up to 65 HP, even though mine is only 30HP or so. The bigger and heavier the better.
Of course, I *LIKE* blades. And have a bit of Tim Taylor in me. Even tried an 8' blade once, but it was too heavy for my tractor. The front wheels only hit the tops of the bumps as I drove down the road. (-:Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.
I bought a 7' blade for my tractor that runs about $1,000. It's rated for tractors up to 65 HP, even though mine is only 30HP or so. The bigger and heavier the better.
This is no small point. The blade I occasionally use, there's no way I could pick up my half. Not unlike tractors, weight's the most important thing.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Hey Boss
Now you've got me thinking...operator error could be the problem. Maybe I'm wrong and you can clarify something...In draft position, don't the hydraulics hold the implement against the ground or at the depth that I set? Or is float and draft the same thing? I've used a Kubota with a boxscraper and I know how that worked. Could be everything is ok with my tractor and I'm not using the corrrect lever position. The operators manual is somewhat vague with position control...maybe it's one of those common sense things.... ;-)
Backblading I do, but only with the loader. Haven't tried it with the blade 180*. The rear blade is not a light weight, but only cost me $300 and is a 6'. As for the rake, it's a 7', cost me $900 with the gauge wheels, and that sucker is at least twice as heavy. When I used the blade, most of the time I was just skimming the surface when plowing snow (it doesn't have shoes or wheels) and yet it seems I'm constantly having to adjust the height/depth. Seems sometimes it would dig in...causing loss of traction...or it would ride up and over the snow. I would make one heck of a mess, like washboard city!! That's why I believe the draft/position control is not set up right.
Csaey gave me a link to a tractor forum, and maybe I can find out if the problem is operator error<g> or something else. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
"...In draft position, don't the hydraulics hold the implement against the ground or at the depth that I set?"
Nope. Draft position only works when you're pulling a tillage implement, and have compression in the top link. In the "draft" position, the hydraulics basically do nothing until it get the signal from the top link. It's more or less like the "float" position.
You have to use POSITION control to keep the 3 point at a specific level.
Very, very few tractors have any sort of down pressure on the 3 point hitch. I seriously doubt yours does.
You mentioned that your blade would "ride up and over the snow". That tells me it's pretty light.
I guess my theory on blades is: If you can grab hold of the thing and move it by hand, it's too light.
Any chance we could get a pic of your rig? For an old farm boy, looking at tractor pics is *ALMOST* as good as looking at swimsuit models....(-:Is it possible to be a closet claustrophobic?
Uh Oh...looks like operator error. I recall the Kubota and how it worked...it held it down too. Have to recheck where I put the position lever. No wonder it didn't seem to work right. You can learn something new everyday here. Thanks I am still a little confused about something, but I'll figure it out or ask you later. The rain here stopped and I need to finish straightening the "Baby Butt" smooth driveway thing<G>. The roller will be here tomorrow.
I'll take some tractor pics today and post them later...stay tuned
See ya... A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
BTW...plowing with a front end loader is not hard, try it sometime. The only hassle is spillage out both sides of the bucket...have to keep making passes to clean up. Wish I bought the front blade, instead of the rear one.
Yikes! I've used both a bucket and a rear blade, on the same tractor. I assure you, the rear blade is better. That's why I thought you didn't have one. You can pick up snow with the bucket, but the bucket is so small, in comparison to what you can move with the angled blade, it's comical. The first pass with the bucket is fine. It's the finishing clearing that doesn't work so well.
Now, when we had several inches of sleet, I found my blade pushed the azz of the (small) tractor sideways, rather than moving the sleet. But for snow, when the blade really works great, no comparison. I've found that putting a foot on the blade helps immensely with leaving the stone in place.
I need no float to use the blade adequately for driveway maintenance. Boss' observations on blade angle and opposite direction were right on. Shouldn't be any problem. The bigger problem is when you hit a bump or hole, the blade moves up or down when you didn't want it to. That's where a grader, with blade suspended between axles, is better.
Tractor length for plowing, especially not considering the bucket, shouldn't be an issue. I've got tighter curves than you do (I think) and have no difficulty. Grading to the edge is another, more difficult, matter.
No offense intended, but sounds like you could use some more of that "on the job training". If you want, you can practice on my driveway. Showed some land to prospects today who observed I hadn't done much recently. They weren't complaining, actually were commenting on how little the driveway deteriorated over the winter with above normal snow. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Yikes! I've used both a bucket and a rear blade
So have I... With the blade, I had traction problems in the snow. Even with 4X4, turf tires don't cut it. Chains help, but I hate the ride, never mind the PITA to install. With the loader, I can plow up or downhill with plenty of grip...even with 12"+ of snow. You might suggest getting rid of the turf tires, but I need them to prevent lawn damage...2.5 acres worth. But you also mention shoes for the blade, which mine doesn't have. Maybe I'll try them next winter...that might help keep the blade from digging in, and just glide on top of the stone. Maybe it'll help with traction too.
As for the total length of tractor/rear blade ...at the top, by the house, I've got 4 vehicles parked. Trying to turn around and avoid hitting them is tough when space is limited. At the entrance, I have limited space too...an uphill slope on one side and a couple trees on the other. I try to stay off the street, too dangerous. Posted speed is 45, but idiots around here drive 60-70. It's a 2 lane state highway, with no break down area, and many serious accidents occur right around my entrance . So with all that said...I use what works for me.
You sure you want me to practice my OTJ training on your driveway? If it's still rough grade...fine. But if it's finish grade, like nice and level, you'd better forget it unless you want to spend a few hours to fix all my f /ups. <G> Yeah I'll admit, I do need practice, but mostly finish grade. Sometimes I have to fix my f/ups by hand...the old fashioned way...with a hand rake!!
Now I'll bet I'm really gonna get my azz busted...LOL A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
With the blade, I had traction problems in the snow.
You're right. Traction has never been a problem for me, long as I'm pointed downhill. My tractor's a little smaller, but with wheel weights and liquid tires it's close to the same weight. Never tried turf tires. With my slopes I want to be sure I don't do any sliding around. I only use one shoe on the outer end of the blade and adjust so that's the low point. That's the only time I use the blade around here, with the grader available. I've found front chains alone sufficient, if I need them at all. Easy to install with the loader available to pick up the front.
My driveway's substantially more than your length, but narrower. You do have to move snow substantially farther. One pass each way does my whole width. Downhill does the large majority, leaving a small uphill pass that works nicely with my traction capacity.
Regarding OJT <G> , my grader can fix anything you could do, in very short order. Better you than me with the hand rake! Maybe somebody there is pickier than we are. "Baby's butt" smooth is good enough for us.
Hope the kitchen's progressing well. You're supposed to be completed by this weekend?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Traction has never been a problem for me, long as I'm pointed downhill
Guess I'm too fussy...I want to be productive with both passes, downhill and UP!
Maybe somebody there is pickier than we are. "Baby's butt" smooth is good enough for us.
Guess who...yours truly! Perfectionist is my middle name!! LOL
re Kitchen... just about ready, but no cabinets yet. I had to move a door over 9"...first time I did this too.. Also had to move some elec outlets and switches, and put in new underlayment for the new flooring. The builder used glue in some places and was a PITA to clean up. Worst part was all the mud work...I don't have patience for that stuff!! Talk about perfectionist...took me forever to get it "Baby's Butt smooth!!! A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
A minor point, but the vast majority of 3-pt hitches do not exert any down force. The hydraulics work only on lifting the 3-pt and the weight of the implement is the only down force. There are a few tractors which provide down force but the problem here is that any down force on the implement (the blade or whatever) subtracts that much weight from the rear wheels, which are the primary drive wheels on almost all tractors. Getting too much down force can then mean spinning one's wheels literally.
true, when the draft is set to a predetermined level tho' maintaining a draft is easy..the weight is held by the hydraulics and "SET" at a height..a 2 bottom plow would dig to china with out a draft set..in combo with the height of the arm lift..a disc harrow runs on weight, a plow ( a bottom plow) has to be set at a depth..
I would run a blade like a harrow..let it float. if it is riding up, add weight to the rig or change the attack angle..if it digs, too much weight ( use the lift) or straighten up the blade for a scrape..
and most blade will work better reversed..push em..ya just gotta sit backwards..<G>
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Sitting backwards on my tractor would require the amputation of at least a couple of legs and the ability to steer with arms straight out in back... What is required on mine is a neck that swivels something approaching 180 degrees... Maybe a good excuse to invest in one of the rear view TV screens they have for RVs. (With one of those on my tractor modified to get regular TV, maybe I won't miss the next Superbowl half time show...)
Sphere
Tell me more about draft control...seems you know something about it. I do know what its purpose is for, as I've used a Kubota with a boxscraper on it, but it was all set up already. My manual is not too clear about set up and operation. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
it's unlikely I could tell ya..kinda have to be there to get it right..this does that and that does this kinda thing..plus my old Ford 8N was a lot different than what you have I think...I justhad an old farmer watch me try to plow in a circle, and with the frontend in the air..when he got done laughin he showed me how to set it for plowing, and when to raise the plow and reverse back to where my next swath (furrow) begins..it was comical..I took out my goat fence trying to steer with the rear brakes..cuz the front wheels were 18" off the ground..and I a 14" doublebottom plow at full depth..8N's ain't meant for that..
re-read the manual, and practice with the draft..try it both ways on/off..and at various lift heights..top link set right?
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it was comical..I took out my goat fence trying to steer with the rear brakes
That's one of the problems...I need two right feet to steer and operate the hydrostatic drive.It has cruise control, even though I never use it, so probably should and maybe practice more...yeah top link is set right too. The main issue was adjusting the relief valve correctly, in relation to the lift arms position. The right lift arm has a turn buckle for adjusting and the left has a fixed arm with 3 position holes...top hole for float and the lower 2 for draft control. The relief valve would blow when the arms were raised. Kept trying to dial it in, and seemed like it would just overshoot the correct setting. So I said 'F' it and readjusted it for float, which I need when I use the mower. I'll have to take a stab at it again...been a couple years since I last fooled with it.
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Edited 3/3/2004 9:49:04 AM ET by bob
I believe my machine has mechanical draft control, but the manual is somewhat lacking in regards to set up and operation of it. So I just leave it in 'float'...which is probably why the rear blade wants to ride over heavy loads. Maybe I need to look into this draft control feature more.
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
An operator who has a good feel........A skilled operator.......
Ha ha ha...not me, but workin on it<G>. For rough grade work, I can run with the pros. But my finish grade work is still a little weak. Still need to get a handle on the eye/hand coordination. Over the years, and operating all kinds of equipment here, has taught me well. The driveway did require a good deal of finish grade work though, but I had help from a pro for that. One of the triaxle drivers would stop by now and then, to fine tune the grade and pitch. A Cat D8 can sure screw things up if you don't know how to operate it correctly ;-)
The crushed stone top coat is all I need to rework, and that's because I plow the drive with a front end loader. I have a york rake on my New Holland to take care of that. The base hasn't been any problem, so far.
Thanks for the tips A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Maybe everybody else can read your mind or uses the same terminology that you do, but I'm missing some information here.
When you report 3/4" drain tile is where you lost me. My drain tiles are 4" surronded by 3/4" stone. I would build a drive base with 8 - 18" of sand/gravel mix (we call it inch minus here) and compacted.
As I read your post and make my assumptions, I think you are saying that you have a couple inches of washed stone placed on ___? and you want to compact that. The slope makes me doubtfull that it will compact in place without rolling off the slope.
I know I'm missing something and surely Brownbag is the man to listen to on this one, but help me understand this, please.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry for the confusion, could be one of those location specific terms. I'll explain... My 3/4" crushed stone is also called drain tile by many experienced pros around here, so I've just adapted to that term. Not sure if it's the correct name, but even at the yard that I get my earth products from calls it that. I also use this same 3/4 stone in my french drain system(with the 4" pipe)... that we call a curtain drain. Thought maybe that's why it was called drain tile.
Here's what the driveway base consists of...the original 9'-10' wide driveway was rough cut in by the builder, period!! It was pure muck when wet. This area is all farmland...with about 12" of black gold top soil. Under that, is about 4-6'..IIRC..of sandy clay, and then hard pan. Plus lotsa rocks!!!...those dam things grow around here LOL
The first year here, my BIL spread 1 1/2"crushed stone(1-2"thick) on the 9'wide driveway and rolled it with one of those dual drum, mini rollers. Followed with about 6" of 1/2" processed gravel, also called road base. This too was mini rolled. A few years later, I added 3/4 drain tile because I liked the looks of it. Plus it stopped those washout ruts and canals on the slope.
2002...scraped all the loose stuff off and dumped it over the bank. Then I used about 1600 cu yds of fill to widen the 9' to 30'. So now the driveway is 18' wide and the remaining 12' will be grass/ground cover. The guys from the yard made sure I put the correct material in the correct places...so I know the base is correct. This was followed with about 4-6" of 1/2" processed gravel and then 2" of 3/4" drain tile. Nothing was rolled as I was told the weight of the dozer and backhoe moving material and compacting the layers, and the 100+ trips the tri-axles made hauling fill, gravel, etc would be sufficient. Now I want to roll the whole 30'X600' which is why I started this post... Here's one of the previous pics I posted, but now that I have a digital camera and a little more knowledge about photography, I'll take some better shots.
Hope it's ok for you dial up users, it was easier for me to cut and paste than reload and attach <G>
edit..deleted pic due to file size
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Edited 2/28/2004 11:51:53 PM ET by bob
uh oh...file looks to big, wonder what happened? I'll try again
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Certainly, it is possibleto overcompact, but doesn'tsound so likely to me, nowknowing what you have done so far.
BTW, My eyebrows lifted a notch atthe mention of 1600 yards of good fill. Around here, that would cost as muych as a small house!
Anyway, a 30' x 600' at one foot deep would only take about 680 yards to 800 yards, depending on compaction rate. How did they figure the amt they charged you for?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
took lots more to fill air space, 20' out was just that...air space. Bank drops off about 10-12' or so at the driveway level and continues dropping to the bottom of the valley.
Anyway, a 30' x 600' at one foot deep would only take about 680 yards to 800 yards, depending on compaction rate. How did they figure the amt they charged you for?
Trust me, that driveway sucked up every bit of it...I stopped counting after triaxle load #85. I trusted the guy running the yard and he trusted me. He floated $4K of it for about 8 months. $70 per triaxle load including delivery, for real nice fill. I think it was about $4 per yd. I spent about $10K total...fill, gravel, drain tile, 600 bales of hay, 500 yds of wood chips, etc. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Hang onto your seat.
Inch minus trucked out to the island by ferry here runs about $40/yard
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$40yd?????... I couldn't hold on, I fell off the seat!!!
You gotta be kidding...around here black gold/screened loam is only about $16-18yd, delivered to my place. 1/2" processed gravel is around $10yd, delivered.
To think I thought it cost me a small fortune for what I got...if I had to pay that kind of coin, I never would have considered buying this place in the first place. Now I see why you said it would cost as much as a small house in your area. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
There simply isn't anything here on islanf other than clay and ledge. A few small grael deposits but nothing to mine out. The guy who once had a small pit has since retired to Florida.
I can get bank gravel for my own place at 28/yd or top dressing screen loam and manure mix up to 60/yd
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Do you know what the material costs, minus the delivery charge? Truckin and ferry charges must be a major chunk of those rates.
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
7-12/yd at the yard
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Not bad...so it's the delivery cost that'll bankrupt you. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Bob,
Why are you going to use asphault? with it's relatively short life before seal coating is required and high maintinace and low resistance to damage caused by oil or gas spills...
Wouldn't concrete be a better choice? Is there that much differance in costs?
(I don't know since I have never considered asphault)
re Asphalt...that's the norm around here. New England winters are tough sometimes. Not sure if concrete is the answer. What about cracking or surface traction? Wouldn't a 20* slope make it tough to pour? I'm sure it can be done, but probably cost more than blacktop. Any idea of the cost difference...18'X600". Either way, I don't want crushed stone forever. Too much babysitting required to keep it smooth on the slope. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Looks like rain or showers is forcast for saturday. Maybe a total of 1/4" to 1/2", so they say. Had some showers this AM and supposed to be the same for tomorrow AM. It all ends saturday afternoon. Should I wait until sunday to roll the driveway, or is saturday ok, as long as it's not pouring?
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
Well, I see why you're having traction problems. That thing has very little weight over the rear end. The tractor is also smaller than I had envisioned.
What about the blade? Got a pic of that?
Your tractor is obviously pretty new. How close is your dealer? If you wander by the place, there should be plenty of people there knowledgeable in setting up the hydraulics on the things. Or they might come by your place on request. Nothing beats having someone who knows twhat they're doing standing there pointing and explaining.
It takes two to tango.
But that's only because I can't convince DW it takes three to tango.
Pretty, but you sure that thing's anywhere close to 4500#? I woulda guessed a whole lot less.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Well...I've been wrong before<G>
Weighed it at a scrap yard on my buddy's trailer. At the time, it was tractor, loader, belly mower and 600# counter weight. Gross was about 5500 and my buddy said his home made trailer was about 1000# A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
oops.. hit one of the files twice and couldn't delete it
A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
I didn't realize you used a counterweight with your loader. That would make a lot of difference.
You're probably tired of me harping on it, but - I really think if you had a heavier blade you'd like using it.
BTW - Do you use sway bars with your 3 point implements? That makes a difference in how well they work.
Nothing risqué, nothing gained. [Alexander Woolcott]
Yup, those are the sway links I was talking about. I prefer 'em on the inside of the arms instead of the outside. But that's mostly personal preference.
Regarding a front blade vs. a rear blade - Personally I'd go for the rear blade.
The front blade would probably be petter for pushing snow for the most part. But the rear blade would be more flexible for other things - Mainly dirt work.
I like working with a rear blade better, since you can see what it's doing. With the blade sticking 10' out in front of you, you can't see what it's doing.
Front blades are good in deep snow, since you don't have to drive through the snow in order to plow it. Although you can turn the rear blade around and push the snow by driving backwards if you have to.
I'm going to start a museum where all the work has been done by children. I'll put all the paintings up on refrigerators.
Thanks...
BTW...I postponed the roller til next weekend. I don't think it would be wise to do it this weekend....due to rain. The last thing I want to do is screw up the driveway base. A bad day at home is still better than a good day at work
I got the answer to yer problem...run a snoblower off the pto..or a hyraulic line...loose the loader bucket for the sno..get a the biggest blade it'll drag.. for the stones.
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