So, there’s a question about lighted 3 way dimmers on the board. I flip through my Favorites, into the Construction folder, then the Electrical folder and nab the site address for Pass & Seymour. That gets pasted back in the reply to the poster.
Look down at the toolbar and I have inadvertently opened the P&S site. Ok, I go click on the thing, and there’s a new “featured product.” It’s the Plugtail. This is a pre-assembled wire connection for standard electrical receptacles. Looks cooler than all get out, and slicker than sliced bread & first bicycles. Which flags the “too good to be true” cynic in me.
Anybody else seen/heard/used this?
Edit–The P&S site is here: http://www.passandseymour.com/
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Edited 8/31/2004 11:24 am ET by CapnMac
Replies
Is that with wooden clothes pins and baseball cards in the spokes???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Yes.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
It would be interesting to compare labor/time savings to the product cost. It's likely that economies of scale would require purchases of large quantities to bring the unit cost down to a "reasonable" level, and that the time savings would have to be significant in order to offset the cost of the devices. Could make installing outlets in new commercial buildings something an apprentice could handle easily if enough were being installed.
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
I expect to pick a few of these up at the NECA show in L.A. in October.
Great concept for new commercial occupancies, where labor is the major part of the installation cost. These things look to be very fast to install. The quality looks to be commercial grade--a couple of notches above what's used in most houses.
For a residential setting, I see disadvantages. You'd have to use the matching receptacle or you'd lose the advantage of the system. And I don't see thesse being carried by Ace, HD, or Lowes, because of the high cost. Also, imagine the homeowner's consternation when they go to replace an outlet and find one of these.
Cliff
Also, imagine the homeowner's consternation when they go to replace an outlet and find one of these.
HO? Shoot, think of the handyman/electrician who wanders into "the house of the future" . . . "Ah, ma'm, I'm not sure they make a dimmer switch in these . . . "
Of course, the building biz being old-fashioned and slow-to-change, I could just see this catching on commercially for a bit. That would then have a little "bleed over" residentially for a while. Then, couple'a decades down the road, there's the whole crew standing aroud staring . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
It looks to me that you still have to wire-nut these pig-tail leads to the wire coming into the box. That is, you only save on labor when you're plugging connector into the outlet, instead of screwing the pigtails on to the outlet. I don't know how long you take to screw the pigtails on to the outlet, but in return for that little labor savings, you have to buy their (single-sourced) outlets and plugtail. There's a whole world of competition driving down the prices of conventional outlets. I'm not sure that this would be a cost savings overall.
Edited 8/31/2004 3:03 pm ET by JAMIE_BUXTON
I'm not sure that this would be a cost savings overall.
That's what I was thinking, too. Is it just a trade of one economy for another?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
>> ... you still have to wire-nut these pig-tail leads to the wire coming into the box.
Yeah. If they really wanted to speed things up, they'd invent a back stab connection that actually works.
"Yeah. If they really wanted to speed things up, they'd invent a back stab connection that actually works."
Pay for it and you can get receptacles with back clamp for wires and they do work.
Why dont they just make an outlet with pigtails already on it. What is the advantage of having a plug to plug your outlet into? I think preinstalled pigtails would be a good idea though.
I suspect that part of the advantage is that the wiring can be done in advance, an the outlets installed late, after rocking or whatever.
P&S has a good, very good, reputation for durable and reliable devices and receptacles.
I have no experience with this product but it would seem to be a relatively low risk product. If the tail to receptacle connection fails the likelihood of it becoming a hazard would seem to be minimal. It would be a reliability not a safety issue.
Similarly spring-loaded push-in connections, avoided by most good electricians, are also mostly a reliability issue.
While only time will truly tell I, based on the pictures, notice that the contact areas involved would seem to be larger than those in the spring-loaded push-in type. This might indicate a more reliable connection. I would hope so.
A lot of this comes down to the details. The quality of the metal used in the connections and the quality of the moldings. Generally P&S has a history of using very high quality and durable materials. Had Leviton or Eagle, particularly if it was one of their lower end lines, brought out this product I would have more serious doubts.
Here's the direct link to the product:
http://www.passandseymour.com/plugtail/index3.cfm
I notice they offer a free sample...Our relationship is magical.So don't complain when I ask you to hold my wand.
Yeah, I expect P&S to be around (they've probably got one of everything, like K&T ceramic bases, it you just know how to order them). I did not mean to suggest that P&S might fade away--more that the product might just not "catch on."
It may actually be too early to tell. They don't seem to have a catalog of receptacles. The pdf documents (that I've read so far) list a 10 and a 20 amp duplex. But, that's not near enough--they need GFCI, quads, singles, that sort of thing.
The other thing that leapt out at me while reading the specs was what ratio are duplex CVs to the other electrical receptacles? Do a restaurant, and it'll likely have more switches & boxes for lights, than for duplex outlets.
The documentation lists some hospital work, and that sort of thing might be where the product would really shine. The maintenance on the fixtures is dirt easy. Have a bad outlet? No problem, Clem can take this one down and swap it for the bad one. Almost zero chance of reversing the polarity, or opening the ground, that sort of thing (no chaining outlets together, either, not the way they are built).
I do like the spot for the circuit ID on the front--I wish someone had thought of that years ago . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
looks to me like the biggest advantage will be commercial jobs -- were it just transfers time -- doing the pigtails at rough-in, instead of finish....add a couple of days to rough in, save a couple of days doing the finish work, when everybody is rushing to get their piece of the job done.
Cost is going to keep them from getting into the residental market.
20 amp heavey duty duplex recpt. recommended retail price 15.00 to 15.50 each. plus the plug in pigtail at $1.50 each. Ouch!
Got that from my supplier Friday. They will sell large quantities to us at $6.50 and $1.50 for the plugtail. Better, but still not down to spec. grade duplex in the same quantities.
Dave
yeah, the ad states that there is plenty of room left in the box !
....... and that's good !
I am wondering how that plug is protected from the Tapers, and Painters of the world. sometimes the painters spray the walls and paint goes everywhere.
I also remember backwiring and how THAT was saving time.
I'll wait and see if inspectors allow these in the future
maddog