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We are building a new home. We were planning on using Pratt & Lambert. The painter has indicated that Sherwin Williams “Super” top of the line is better than P&L. Also that Sherwin Williams owns P&L. Any input on qualities of paint. We also have heard that Benjamin Moore is good; but is hard to get in the rural area where we live. What product is recommended for repainting exterior of clawfoot tub
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A few years back, I visited with a Sherwin-Williams commercial paint marketing executive. Here's a few things I gleaned from our conversation:
1. The best products of most all "name brand" paints are pretty good.
2. Use only the "top of the line" products from any manufacturer. The coverage and durability of top quality paint generally overrides any economies associated with the per gallon cost of cheap products. (Presuming you're trying to do quality work)
3. The larger companies (i.e., Sherwin Williams) feel their products are superior because of extensive research and development, testing and production quality control.
4. Painters themselves are often predisposed to recommend painting products based on the quality of service they recieve from the paint distributors. Service includes the discount they receive. Sadly, many painters are poorly schooled in paint selection and application.
Sorry, but I can't advise re. the clawfoot tub.
Good luck, Steve
*I see paint from an entirely different standpoint than most painters, and consumers. I look at chemical composition of paint. This tell me what's in it, how much (most are not willing to give the "how much" info) and spread rates. I have to agree with Steve about the upper lines of ANY paint brand versus middle to lower lines. The upper lines have more pigment, better quality pigment, and better quality additives in their paint. Additives can be anything from hardeners (for final cured finish) to mildewcides for bath and kitchen paints.Brand names don't really mean much anymore. Sherwin-Williams bought most of the paint manufacturing companies, so most brand names belong to them. Valspar is the oldest paint manufacturer in the nation, and makes a quality product so long as you stick with their upper lines. Designer or celebrity name paints (Martha Stewart, Laura Ashley, Ralph Lauren, etc...) are all just spin offs of already on the market paints. Only the names and labels have really changed. They are, however, more expensive.Pratt and Lambert paint has absolutely NO warranty. How's that for a quality product. They claim (this is straight from P & L) that warranties are nothing more than homeowner fads, and that a true qaulity paint is the one that costs the most. BALONEY. Warranties tell an awful lot about a paint's quality. Behr Premium Plus paint is sold at Home Depot, but carries a lifetime warranty. Chemical makeup wise, I would compare it to any paint on the market in it's same class or category.A great place to get the real info on paint quality is the Haas Paint Institute. These guys test paints, and evaluate their quality. They are hired by the various paint manufacturers to test their paints. Their info is non biased, and a good source for the true contents and makeup of paint.After researching paint for at least the last five years, the best advice I can give on choosing the best paint is this: Choose a paint from the upper lines of any major name paint manufacturer, and choose a finish that best suits the room/use you have in mind (i.e. bathroom paint for bathrooms, flat paint for ceilings and walls in low use rooms, semi-gloss or high gloss for trim work and doors in heavy traffic areas, eggshell or satin for walls in heavily used rooms etc...)Let your wallet be your guide.James DuHamel
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I would have to agree with the other to gentlemen regaurding the use of top of the line paint from any well known brand name.It would be hard to make a disasterous choice using the top of the line.
As a side note,on my personal projects I use Pratt& Lambert exclusively because my local distributor has always given me top notch service and advice.(It was also recomendded by family friends in the painting trade 50 plus years)Lack of a warranty from the paint manufacturer is a complete non-issue for me.Paint is a product highly dependent on proper preparation and application.There are so many causes of paint failure beyond the controll of the manufacturer that I am surprised that any manufacturer would offer a warranty.In fact I suspect it is probably even easier to void a paint warranty than a shingle warranty. A warranty is only good if you can collect on it.
The cost of the paint is negligable compared to the cost of the labor to prep and apply.Even though I personally use P&L,in your case I would go with the Sherwin Williams.The quality of the materials will be comparable BUT your painter will be happier since SW is what he wants to use.Keeping the painter happy,accepting his advice and letting him have his way on a minor matter will ad more actuall value to your job than you may imagine.If you subtly let him know you value his skill,judgement and experience you are apt to get a better job than you would if you insult him by implying that his favorite brand of paint is second rate.Cheap phsychology,I know,but I bet it works for you.
Of course I could be wrong,stephen
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Consumers Union in their Consumer Reports magazine tests house paints periodically. I did a quick check of their web site http://www.consumerreports.org and it showed they did a report on exterior house paints in their 6/99 issue. If I remember correctly, they often rate some of the discount house brands among their top ratings. You need to be a member to view the reports on line, if not, you may want to go to your local library to check out the report. (I don't always agree with their conclusions, but I usually learn something from reading their reports.)
*Okay, I've got my bullet proof vest on, so let em rip, but I can't let this pass by without saying:Martha paint is the best bang for the buck by far.It's cheap. She's already matched the colors, which are very consistent and do match the color samples. They are beautiful and it has awesome coverage. The coverage is the key for me, I hate adding layer after layer, and believe me a lot of expensive paint is overrated (sorry Ralph at 2X+ cost)It blows away everything-interior wise, available at Sears and Kmart. Most of the paint I've bought covers in one coat, all with 2.Martha paint kicks butt!
*MD,For shame!
*VLB:Regarding the clawfoot tub question: I asked the owners and operators of one of the best and biggest architectural salvage yards in the San Francisco Bay Area (Omegah Salvage, Berkeley) because I too have a tub exterior to paint. They said Rustoleum.By the way, they also said to use pumice stone (and water) to get rust stains out. I was skeptical that it might scratch the porcelain, but I tried it both in their yard on their tubs and on my own tub. It takes a lot of elbow grease, but it works! I get bars of pumice in the swimming pool section of Home Depot/
*MD,Wait till the boys see this, you're really going to get it b real bad. And it's "A GOOD THING"........Thought you might be color blind and someone tipped you off that the cards match things and the declamatory names help your sales pitch on weak minded customers. But no, you had to go and give a endorsement on paint that would make Henry Ford roll over in his grave.
*I've found the pumice stones for cleaning off rust and stains at Ace Hardware. I was also skeptical until I tried it gingerly in a small area.There are actually two types of "Martha" paint. There's the cheap latex (not 100% acrylic) that's sold by K-Mart and Sears, and there's the Hermann A. Schreuder paint (alkyd interior and exterior)from Europe that Martha has also attached her name to.Interestingly, the K-Mart paint is about $15 a gallon, and the Schreuder paint is about $50 a quart.
*....my painter bounces back and forth between SW & Benjamin Moore. (they keep changing the formulations)..we do our own painting if its just trim or small rooms..I've got a couple of houses right up the street I built and painted with SW A-100 in '76 ... the Owners haven't repainted yet... and up close, still looks good... fading on the blue,, some chalking and a little peeling from wicking moisture of end grain.. so S&W is OK with me...Their new Super Paint gets VERY high marks ..P&L gets top marks here too... I guess Behr is good .. just can't walk thru the doors of HD..if your tub is rusted on the outside, try one of the rust conversion paints like RustDestroyer, the convert the oxide to a hard black coat (about $75 /gallon)....then top coat of your choice
*Okay,One more time, while Ben Moore and Sher Williams and Pratt Lambert, etc. etc. are all fine paints, at twice the price or more than Martha's, I can't see wasting the money. How come you guys don't like it, have you tried it? Or just don't like her?
*...lets see.. where would I buy martha? in a paint store?.. I only buy serious paint in a serious paint store ... just love paying extra... I buy my non-serious paint at the lumber yardmartha... last good idea i took from here was serving pumpkin soup in a pumpkin...but , hey is this a great country or what?
*Okay, MD, let's get serious here. A standard latex paint at $15 a gallon versus the Martha paint also at $15 a gallon. Which pays a royalty for the name association at a sacrifice in manufacturing cost (and quality)? It's not Martha hate. If it were Air Jordan latex, I'd be just as skeptical.I think Martha is glimpsing the end of her rainbow and is going for the gold, since her endorsements had previously been a bit more upscale and exclusive. I guess soon we'll be seeing Martha Stewart dish soap and sanitary pads. In tasteful colors, I'd expect.
*There was an earlier post aboout the Paint Quality Institute evaluating paints. They do good work, but they do have a vested interest in promoting the use of acylic latex paints. Rohm and Haas is, I believe, the largest manufacturer of acrylic resins for the paint industry.Dana
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We are building a new home. We were planning on using Pratt & Lambert. The painter has indicated that Sherwin Williams "Super" top of the line is better than P&L. Also that Sherwin Williams owns P&L. Any input on qualities of paint. We also have heard that Benjamin Moore is good; but is hard to get in the rural area where we live. What product is recommended for repainting exterior of clawfoot tub