Well, I think it’s time for me to increase my painting IQ. Over the past four years, I’ve painted every room in our townhome including the finished basement. I started as the typical homeowner painter trying to save $$ and then quickly found that I really enjoy painting — I mean, really enjoy it. (An article several years back on how to paint a room back is what got me reading and buying FHB.)
The keys to my conversion?
– Walking into my local BM dealer and opening a consumer account.
– Throwing away the crutches and learning to cut in.
– Buying real brushes to cut in for real. (My favorite is a 2 1/2″ straight that I bought 3 years ago)
– Treating brushes like tools and caulk like a consumable, rather than the other way around
– Discovering Floetrol
Now we’ve moved out of the townhome and our new house is a blank canvas. It’s 8 years old and has never had a real coat of paint — only the builder’s white paint-like material. Before moving in, we’ve had the whole house primed and the ceilings painted with flat White. Now I have the mandate from my wife to get going. We’re going to be using BM Regal AquaVelvet on the walls (stepping up from the Super Spec we used in the townhome).
We also want to freshen up the doors and trim, and this is where I have a few questions, most of which deal with oil vs. latex.
- How do I tell if the builder used an oil-based trim paint? It seems much harder than our old trim, but maybe they just used a real paint.
- Since I will be brushing (with some rolling on the doors) instead of spraying, can I get a super smooth finish without using oil? Fumes are a concern, as we have two young girls who won’t be able to stay away for long.
- Will my prep work change at all if I use latex vs. oil? I’m planning to dull up the finish with a light sanding, maybe even use some Gloss-Off.
- I’ve searched a lot here on Breaktime, and BM’s Satin Impervo sounds like the Real McCoy. But, I have seen mixed reviews on the latex Satin Impervo. Are the knocks based on performance in a sprayer, or should I only be considering the oil-based?
- And, finally, can someone explain backrolling to me in a little more detail? I’ve read y’all talking about it in relation to spraying and that seemed to make sense: smoothing out the spray for the finish. Is is something I should be doing on all my topcoats? Sorry for the ignorance on this one.
I hope this isn’t too much in one post. Any answers are greatly appreciated.
Replies
#3 get to know scotch brite for prepping gloss surfaces. It works great and doesn't make the mess sanding does.
As for the paint I would stick with high end latex and go to semi or gloss for the trim details and plan on 2 coats for the best finish. Also understand the correct roller for the best appearance. You can lay it on the wall with a heavy nap roller, but for appearance you want it smooth with a short nap roller.
I can tell by your questions that you're 98% better then most home owners out there and even better then some of the "pros".
Stick with what you're doing and it will look great. I know this is an ambiguous answer, but I can tell you're on the right track already.
My clues are:
1) The same brush for over three years.
2) Floetrol.
3) No mention of a Big Box.
4) You're asking the right questions.
5) You actually care about your work.
Would you be interested in painting my place?
back rolling is done IMMEDIATELY after spraying to give the wall a little texture.
If you just spray, the wall is very smooth.And any touch-ups show up more easily.
Backrolling is simple. Once you've sprayed the wall, just go over it with a paint roller. A smaller nap roller, 3/8" or so, is what I've usually seen.
But don't be afraid to experiment. You can just paint over your practices.
( I was gonna say mistakes, but that wasn't right.)
Since you have kids, I would recommend that you opt for a scrubbable flat paint rather than the AquaVelvet for the walls. Ben Moore makes both. The scrubbable flat is very tough. It is tough to scratch when cleaning after it has cured.
Satin Impervo is nice but I orefer Dulamel - Eggshell for trim. Not as glossy. Very subtle and elegant. Looks good with a flat wall paint.
We have used the latex Satin Impervo. Dealer gave us a couple of gallons to try out last summer during an alkyd law change/ confusion. It is so much better than the old latex trim paint but still not like oil.
Use Penetrol if you need better flowout for alkyd paint. If you use thinner, you will loose sheen.
Doesn't matter what the previous painter used on the trim - we prime everything with an alkyd primer - BM.
We use short nap (1/4") rollers - for priming and finish paint.
Don't use rollers after they have been rinsed and then dried. Rinsing and spinning out is cool - SOP - but once they dry they are worthless.
Always use a pole when you are rolling. You will get better coverage, less roller marks and a more even coat.
We use Purdy brushes. China bristle for alkyd paint.
As someone else mentioned, sand all trim with a green scotch bite pad. The are available at the big boxes 10/$3.50. You'll be able to get into the recesses and curves of the moulding easier without it gumming up.
If you must roll the doors, ok - if you brush it out immediatly after rolling. The brush will aid the paint relaxing and flattening out.
Painting ceilings white is nice/ basic. Dec. Wht is a bit blue and colder. Atrium Wht is a bit red and therefore warmer. Use them accordingly.
Try using a color on the ceiling too. Experiment. I like the ceiling to be similar t the wall, just a lot lighter - but not stark white.
Oh yeah, Canvas drop cloths - not plastic or paper.
Blue tape is your friend especially along the floor.
Hope this helps,
Frankie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Don't use rollers after they have been rinsed and then dried. Rinsing and spinning out is cool - SOP - but once they dry they are worthless.First off what does SOP mean? Standard operating Procedure?And do you care to elaborate a little more on rollers beingworthless after drying??
SOP = Standard Operating Procedure When roller sleeves are rinsed and dried, it is rare for ALL the paint to have been removed. Therefore, depending on position/ stance/ orientation when drying, the remaining moisture in the sleeve will gravitate to the lowest part of the sleeve. If you stood the sleeve up for drying, all that remaining moisture will have migrated to the low end and when dry, whatever minute amount of paint which remained in the sleeve will have gotten hard and will now create a pattern if used again. Not good.After spinning, when you grab the sleave to remove it from the spinner, you will have compressed the pile. When dried and rewet, this compressed pile will not have the same volume as the rest of the sleeve and will create a pattern when rolling. Not good.Sure it is possible to rinse and spin the sleeve enough times to remove ALL the paint. Sure there is a way to remove the sleave ever so carefully to prevent pile compression. But all this takes time and you don't know if that time has been wasted until the following the roller has dried.Rollers sleeves are cheap - about $3.50 each. We only use Purdy. The time invested in rinsing for a possible reuse cost more than that.If you want to save the sleeve for reuse, load it with paint, put it in a ziplock bag, squeezing all the air out, and store it in the fridge. The next day or next weekend, spin it out and rinse. Use it immediately.So, the upshot is: If the roller sleeves dry and get even the slightest bit crusty or the pile gets compressed the pattern created renders them worthless.andThe time required to save a roller sleeve by cleaning it is worth less than the cost of the sleeve.FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
I've been using the same roller covers I bought 25 yrs ago when I painted professionally. Came from SW, no idea who made them but they cost more than your $3.50- at the time. Never a problem cleaning them, variety of naps. Have worn out several rollers.
They work better than cheap (new) covers that I've occasionally encountered when helping a friend. Sounds like Purdy isn't what it was when I was buying their great brushes.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Ive got the same problem as Vatom.
Ive been a painting contractor over 35 yrs .
First I dont know why you would buy such a cheap roller sleeve as purdys but you do so what you might do is throw them in the dumster as you get done using them. I would have a problem cleaning that cheap sleeve too.
Mine are lambs wool and they are all several years old . The only way they find there way to the dumpster is if they have lost part of there wool. Never because paint is left in them .
Tim
We don't use the lambs wool because Purdys are cost efficient and do the job. Purdys leave less lint on the wall than other brands and used to be the one of the few with a durable core.Most HOs are a) not going to invest in a more expensive sleeve (they balk at the Purdy price), b) don't know lambs wool sleaves even exist let alone where to buy them and c) don't know/ understand how to clean them, making them pricey single-use sleeves.I wrote what I do with the materials/ tools I use. You and VATOM use other methods - cool. Whatever works for you and your practices.BTW - what length nap do you use with a lambs wool sleeve? Any particular brand?You have been using the same sleeve for years? Everyday? My lambs wool sweaters don't last that long. I never considered sleeves, lambs wool, synthetic or otherwise, as a durable good. Makes me want to re-evaluate them. I will pick up a few this week and test them out.FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
After I wrote that I thought mebbe it sounded a little harsh.
My opplogy if it sounded that way although you didnt mention it . I did not mean it that way .
I look at a lambs wool roller as a tool and dont charge the customer for it no more than I would a hammer.
How long they last ? Ive used them a year pretty heavy . Part time several years. I dont know really but if thats any idea.
I use them becuse they hold more paint and flip none off of them to the floor . If they are run slow you could almost not use a drop but Im not reccomending that. Sometimes I do venture over an area with out a driop if its a dry roller. The drops stay looking sharp for a long time .
I use 3/4s to 1 inch in someones home on flat and eggshell. 1/2 inch on semis and 1/4 on doors apartment style.
1 1/2 inch nap on new drywall.
Ill add that lambs woll is the smoothest application of all naps.
Tim
Plain speaking can be seen as harsh, but it is only plain speaking. A kind of shorthand - especially between those who are familiar with one another. Maybe that's what sparks the strong wording! HA!I always enjoy and learn from your posts - well, maybe not always. Keep 'em coming.FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
I am only a carpenter, but I also enjoy painting and am in the middle of repainting our house. Here's a little something I came up with in the shop while using a 4" roller to spread glue on a bent lamination. ..
After you wash the roller out as well as you can, hang it over the edge of a garbage can and give it a spin with some compressed air. It spins all of the water out and leaves it practically dry. In the shop, I just leave the cover on the roller so there are no compression issues as stated elsewhere in this post. I have been using the same roller cover for over a year now and it is a $2.00 item., granted it's just for glue, but the nap feels factory freash.
KH
I'd add one thing to your suggestion: Make sure you don't have an in-line oiler on your compressor.
just a tip on purdy rollers & brushes... on ebay right now a guy has been listing purdy stuff by the case... prob save you 50% he's a salvage guy and I'd bet this stuff came out of the LA storms... his ebay name is MARSINC i think... they are good people been in the salvage biz forever...
p
I did a search for that seller and can't find him. Couldn't even find a search option for finding sellers. Any tips?FThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
6050578233 is one item number for brushes... he has rollers also the seller is
MARRSINC
hope that helps
p
#1. Test inconspicuous area with "Goof Off". It will remove latex but leave oil unaffected.
#2. Floetrol helps with a smoother finish. Latex paint does emit fumes, though not as odiferous as oil. Read the label on all paints and follow the ventilation procedures. FWIW I get headaches from SW Super and Duration if used in poorly ventilated areas. Data sheet here: http://www.sherlink.com/sher-link/temp/msds/640512935.pdf?
#3. Oil Primer over oil after degloss, latex primer over latex after degloss. Latex color coats.
#4. Dunno. SW is my choice.
#5. I front roll.
Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
You sound like a friend of mine who enjoys painting. Many people hate it.My friend is kind of an artist and has a creative presonality and maybe that's why he likes painting so much.One suggestion I have is if in doubt go ahead and apply a coat of primerI looked at some samples in Lowes (painting over previously painted surfaces)the other day and they showed comparisons using two coats of paint and no primer VS one coat of primer and one top coat.There was a visible difference - the samples with primer uncercoat turned out better. Something that the pros do is pour their paint through some kind of screen or filter to remove any gunk or particles.Good luck!^^^^^^
"The Older We Get, The Better We Were"
Sounds like you've got lots of answers. Good ones too! My experiencees...
I like BM Aquaglo semigloss, with Floetrol for trim.
I LOVE SW Duration for exterior.
Clients often want a Ralph Lauren color for walls, and i admit the paint is pretty good.
And my rollercovers get washed and rinsed, and yea it's probably a waste of time/money, but it's hard to throw so much stuff away, LOL. I don't spin, I try to spin a bit, and then roll in lots of paper towels, They really draw the moisture out, and leave it barely damp. Seems fine and fluffy. I actually prefer a broken in roller to new. Still, they do wear out. But 6 or more uses seems reasonable.
Prime darker walls with colored primer.
Finally, it's all about prep, prime twice, paint once, rather than the other way around, LOL. Sand between coats, tack rag... Doors and windows are best painted following a process.
I'm not a pro but automotive restorations and panting left me with some "Habits", LOL.
YMMV!
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
I'm not a pro but automotive restorations and panting left me with some "Habits", LOL.
I'm hip to the auto part, but wondering what habits you got from panting...
:)
DG/Builder
To paint at a higher level? It depends on the level you want to reach. Sometimes I'll use ladders, sometimes scaffolding and other times a boom truck. whatever it takes.
On repaints finish paint is a small part of the job, so I almost always use the top line. Saves in the end
As far as rollercovers, I've seen paint forums explode over clean vs throw. As for me it depends on the job. I always buy lambswool, Mooney has that right, but most of the time I still think it's cost effective to toss them. Use at least a 3" brush, I was weaned on a 4" and forget those sash brushes they don't hold enough paint.
The most important point for a higher level of painting? Prep is 90% of the job. Everybody thinks they can paint..just buy a bush and roller...what sets the pros apart is attention to detail,Prep and knowing your materials and when to use them. Did I mention prep
I just bought a gallon of Floetrol - I am painting the new bathroom trim next weekend. Thanks for the tip.
Backrolling is nothing but blending all even with a roller. You go over lightly any seams of paint or dripmarks left on the wall and blend them in making sure everything is evenly covered.
You do the same on trimwork with a brush where you get the paint on and covered and then lightly run the brush in one long stroke down the trim using just the tips of your brush which is held almost at 90 degrees to the trim while the paint is still at a workable wetness. This gives you the final settle texture so there are no real brushstrokes that are beginning or ending. It's called "tipping".
I too like the oilbase "settled" finish, but they are phasing out oil completely. Get used to the latex. They have come a long way with it even in the last 10 years.
The Scotchbright pads are great for the the prep but they do not knock off the high points like regular sand paper, rather they ride over it. I like to very lightly hit the work with 150 or 220 depending, it takes just a sec, then do the scotchbright.
Alkyd primer will take care of it all. Sand lightly after priming and betwee coats...even on the walls.
Thanks for all the tips.
I think I'm going to give latex Impervo a shot with the Floetrol, if for no other reason than to test it out. And I'll definitely try out the "tipping."
I go back and forth with my rollers. I usually buy the Purdy 3-pack when it's on sale for $8, and they'll hold up to multiple uses. I will reuse rollers from priming, especially for more priming. Also, my wife really likes accent colors on the walls, usually one or two shades apart from the same paint chip. I'll paint the lighter one first, clean and spin the roller and then use it for the darker shade. Other than that, I pitch my rollers.
I've never sanded between finish coats on the walls -- I'm sure that will make the finish even nicer.
One more question on the trim... Is taping the carpet (and tucking the tape under the trim) the best way to prepare and protect? The only trim I've previously painted was in the basement prior to carpet installation. The carpet in this house is brand new, so I want to make sure I do this part right.
Gotta get back to work...
I like to tape the carpet down under the trim to keep the "buglies" off the brush as well as paint off the carpet.Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations