Would like some insight into painting kitchen cabinets.
What is the best type of paint finish to buy,
most likely will use a HVLP system.
I have been painting for 15 years but recently started to look
at the cab repaint market. Familiar with prep etc.
I realize not all cabs should be repainted
Have used latex based one or two times before, but I want a classy job.
Any sights to buy HVLP decent price.
Thanks, T Bird
Replies
"Any sights to buy HVLP decent price."
Define decent price for us if you would, to get suitable recommendations.
Can we assume you mean a portable turbine unit so you can shoot on site?
Or.....are interested in both a turbine unit and an HVLP conversion set-up for the shop, as well. ???
Thanks:decent price under 800.00.to shoot on site.Have seen some HVLP guns only to use with a regularcompressor setup, but is this true HVLP?I thought you needed a turbine?Regards, T Bird
yes it is a true hvlp. But No offense if you have to ask a question like that I would consider paying a professional.
Conversion hvlp gun about 4-500 bucks
do you have the other tools needed such as sanders, shop vac, cordless drill drivers ect.
it might be cheaper in the long run to hire a pro.
I was just having this convrsation with a friend of mine today. I told him sometimes depending on the job it is cheaper to sub it out.Buck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Sancho Ron:Thanks. Just because I asked the question should make you thinkI am not a pro. Been painting for 15 - 20yrs. Have all the equip.ladders from2 - 32', power equip. airless you name it. No offense taken.Its just that recently I have been getting more request for doing cabs.I like to deliver a quality pro job, so to me the best way is to keep asking questions and balance the info. I always by the best paint,
strain everything and so forth.
If you do cabs for a quality job, what do you use finish wise.Just don't tell me latex, otherwise we will know who is not pro.
Kindest regards, T - Bird
ok cool..sorry but its hard to tell who is who in the zoo :>)
well now heres what i would do. Instead of paint i would use a white water base poly. http://www.compliantspraysytems.com add the crosslinker and you'll have a very nice finish that is hard and wont scratch or chip. I use a accuspray versaex gun which uses a small compressor twin gal 1 1/2 hp emglo. you can get the system set up with a 2 1/2 gal remote pressure feed system.. its pretty slick and I really likethe enduro coat they sell. Its about all I use.Buck Construction View Image
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
ron:sorry if i was somewhat crazy, i do appreciate your efforts.your info is appreciated. stay cool, peace.t bird
Here's some good info about HVLP….both turbine and conversion guns. http://www.spraytechsys.com/literature/wag_lit/wag_pdf/HVLP_training.pdfSomething that hasn't been mentioned here yet is the differences between painting or finishing cabs that are new and what you intend to do which is recoat those cabs. There are significant differences and pitfalls awaiting attempts at either recoating with clear finishes, colored lacquers or with paint.For instance, many/most of the manufactured cabs made in say, the last 15 years will be bearing a catalyzed lacquer, like Campbell's Magna-Lac or Magna-Max or a cat-varnish or some other manner of conversion finish. These types of finish present special (but now very common) problems at recoating time because getting your new finish to bond to a conversion finish is exceedingly dubious. It's just the nature of the beast. I wouldn't personally care to warranty a finish applied over these conversion finishes as it's likely to flake or peel off even if the surface is well cleaned, scuff sanded and a quality deglosser has been used just prior to application of the new finish. Stripping the old stuff off is the only reliable way to guarantee good bonding of the new finish. And these conversion finishes don't strip all that easily. More time and more work than non-conversion finishes.Another problem you could (and will for sure eventually) encounter is if someone has used a silicone-bearing furniture polish/cleaner on the cabs. Fish-eye problems are then waiting for you. I can only imagine that some or most of the cabs you'd be asked to paint will have areas on them where the finish is worn off and bare wood is exposed. If a silicone-bearing substance (like Pledge) has been applied after the finish is cracked or worn off, silicone contamination of the underlying wood is assured. You'll then have surface tension and bonding problems as a result. Total removal of this silicone via any chemical means is virtually impossible in most instances. Even stripping a piece of contaminated wood won't usually remove the silicone. So I'd say you'd best learn how to use products like Fish-Eye- Eliminator or Sil-Flo or similar and have some on hand at all times.Since there's a limit as to how much of these products can be added to the finish, the use of same alone cannot guarantee that you'll be able to overcome really serious silicone contamination. BTDT, way more than once. The only way to discover the failure is to try and then see the end result. If the contamination is beyond the capabilities of the product, you'll have to immediately remove your new and yet wet finish and resort to more extreme methods of suppressing the sili-contamination. Several dust coats of a dewaxed shellac, like Zinnser's SealCoat, will be in order and may have to yet be followed by a finish containing the Sil-Flo or such also. (FYI, these products are basically pure silicone. What you are doing is adding a bit of silicone to your finish to bring the surface tension of that new finish into alignment with silicone contaminated surface. If you add too much……your new finish won't ever dry or cure properly. That's why there's a limit to how much you can add. And adding this stuff to your finish and then pouring that finish into your gun can easily contaminate the gun beyond your attempts to remove it all. It's best to figure on having a separate gun to use when you need to add silicone to your finish......and then have a second gun to use that never sees silicone in it.) Unfortunately, there are no reliable "pre-tests" for silicone contamination. You essentially find out if there's a problem when you apply your finish. If there's a problem, you immediately remove that yet wet finish and start over with "plan b". For the above reasons, I wouldn't care to give a firm price on a repaint or refinish job on worn cabs or furniture. And I don't. Cost + or time & material only. If they balk…….I walk. Or at the very least, I'd suggest that you price the job assuming the absolute worst case scenario. I see now that you said in your initial post that you're familiar with prep procedures so I may not have offered anything you don't already know. If so, consider it to be a little reminder when you go pricing a job. :-) Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.Edited 4/21/2005 11:31 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
Edited 4/21/2005 11:43 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
thanks for the insight, all your points are well taken,sounds like you've been there done that!Thanks again.
Go to Jeff Jewitt's website http://www.homesteadfinishing.com
There is a forum there where you can ask this, and many responses direct from painting pros who have been there and done that. Cab refinishing is discussed there regularly.
Jeff will also advise you on equipment and finishes.
You'll get some replies here, but the info base is not nearly as rich as over at Jeff's site.
Enamel from http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/ will look almost sprayed and is bulletproof. Plus look at a substance called Swedish Putty - it show how serious this line is.
There was just an excellent article in Fine Woodworking on painting furniture, which would apply to cabinets, too.
RD
I'm no expert, I installed cabinets several weeks ago that were built in a very small shop. Beautiful painted finish I thought. Met the owner and asked him what kind of paint he used. He told me that he uses pigmented laquer sprayed with a conventional gun.Search for finishing forums, they know a lot more than me.
mike
Hey tbird,
I build cabinets and have shied away from finishing them,but like you,my customers have asked me to finish them recently.I have a good HVLP unit about 8 years young.The Hot Ticket now I'm told is air-assisted HVLP , a unit made by Accuspray (don't know cost ).
J. L. Campbell finishes (catylized )dries quick (15-20 min), or Benjamin-Moore IMPERVO.
If I'm painting I prefer to brush .I like the texture.If I have to touch-up something on the site it"s easy.
A question.How much , or how do you charge for finishing cabinets in place .It (I don't know why the print just changed) takes me longer to finish the cabinets then to build them. The time for prep ,to finish cabinets on site,I can't imagine.
Most cabinets I've seen that were in need of refinishing were wore out. Hinges,glides drawers all in need of fix'n. Do you fix stuff? I always found it cheaper in the long -run to put in new cabinets.
I would'nt mind doing the finish on site ,but how do you figure time and repairs on a job like that.
I don't have much to say about the business of painting cabinets, but here's a thought......
If the cabinets have raised panel doors, then you might want to paint them while the humidity is very low. That way if they expand, your painted surface (of the panels) will expand into the stiles and rails.
If, on the other hand, you paint while the humidity is high, then when it dreis out, the panels will shrink, and the unpainted edges of the panels might show.
And for what it's worth, I REALLY like the idea of the pigmented poly. I've used that stuff on a couple of doors (bedroom doors), and it was amazing.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
finally, a true honest thought thru commment, your points are well taken, most other so called painters would never think of what you offer.mainly because your right. be cool. and thanks!
Asturo 9010 conversion gun with a 2-qt. pressure pot and 6' hoses. (http://www.homesteadfinishing.com) You can hang the pot on your belt or on a stand. The gun is easier to use inside the cab without the cup. Get the largest needle/cap you can for latex and acrylic. I think mine is 2.0mm. I've had good luck with Sherwin Williams ProClassic 100% acrylic and primer. Doesn't block like straight latex. Thin about 20% with water.