I have asked three different paint dealers this question and received three different answers – Is it ok to use a solid latex exterior stain over primed wood trim? One dealer said if the wood is factory primed they used the cheapest possible primer and I should re-prime with an oil based primer and then I can use a latex solid stain or paint. As long as I am mining for information- should the glazing putting on preprimed window be primed also before final finish- I would think so. Is oil base exterior paint better than latex? Any helpful opinions would be greatly appreciated.
DP
Replies
In my experience, if using a stain - solid or semi-transparent - no primer is needed; in fact, might hinder the application of stain. When I finished my son's cedar playhouse, I used oil-based solid stain (no primer), subsequent coat was water-based solid stain.
Regards
You could use the solid color stain but it amounts to basically thinned down paint - why not just paint it with regular latex paint?
Glazing on wood windows is typically an oil base product and will not acceptably take latex paints, so yes, prime the windows and use oil there.
Oil vs latex? Both have ups and downs but the longetivity difference has all but evaporated. There are latex paints that perform better than some oils, and vise-versa. Latex has gained in popularity since the quality improved and we dont need gallons of thinner anymore. The oil has a different look to it, but IMHO, use whatever turns your crank, and then go buy quality. Latex is certainly easier for the DIY-er.
First thing is I dont take issue with your post as you were feeling . [more on that later ]
"You could use the solid color stain but it amounts to basically thinned down paint - why not just paint it with regular latex paint?"
We both said the same thing basicly and now Piffin .
"Glazing on wood windows is typically an oil base product and will not acceptably take latex paints, so yes, prime the windows and use oil there."
Small disagreement . Wont cause a fall out because both roads will get you there . I will beat you with my methods here however with" time " . I use oil glazing inside alone. I have reasons , but its not worth the time or friendship to argue . No biggy , just a time issue.
He wasnt real clear what he had to paint to me . He ended up wondering what to do over primed siding. I probably was the one who misunderstood .
My issue that you picked out of my post was what I hear on painting, hanging, and drywall finish . It was really a vent , not directed at you . My approach is speed and loss of movement. I had to maximize a living from it. We have a lot of carps here doing there own painting. Painting is not respected at all as a trade. I know better , thats all. I pretty much know how all is done , but I dont practice it all thats for sure. I do know enough to say that painting for a living has a wealth of knowledge behind it. Sorry for the vent that was not directed at your post .
From our cabin to yours ,
Happy Holidays
Tim Mooney
Edited 12/3/2002 12:23:38 AM ET by Tim Mooney
Three different answers hyuh? By the time we're done with you, you'll have twenty to sort out.
First is WHY?
The reason for using stain is lost once you have a primer on.
Second is WAHT? do you want to paint? Different answers for different applications. New or used? Window trim or siding? what kind of siding? What is the wood?
There might be some cheap primers used for preprime at factories but the two times I asked, the answer was Benj- Moore Oil which is the same that most of the painters here on the coast of Maine are using and we get some fierce weather and moisture.
There was a loooooooooooonnggg thread about this a year and a half ago, I think, when Andy was painting his house. The general concensus - or what I took awway from it, is that on new wood, oil primer is best because the slower cure lets it penetrate the wood to get a better chemical grip and that over it for finish coats, latex is often better because it will let the house and the wood breathe moisture out. Moisture moving out through the wood is the most common cause of blistering off and the oil makes more of a waterproof seal, trapping it in until it blisters up.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
If you were doing electrical , they would tell you to hire an electrician. If you were building a house , they would tell you to get a contractor. Its amazing to me what happens when the question is about painting.
You must prime with oil primer before latex anything on the exterior . Thats period , end of discussion .The best primer money can buy . Oil primer keeps new lumber from bleeding through, plus sets up a bonding surface. If you want to scrape for the rest of your life , put latex on new lumber with out priming it. Now if you were to use oil stain , you would be good to go. I have always wondered my self why people use latex stain instead of paint , plus pay the same price for it. Latex paint is a much better product. You do your glazing and caulking between coats. Glazing is latex base.
Personaaly I would rather have two coats of oil stain. One coat of latex stain may not cover the primer , hence , three coats !
From Our cabin to yours,
Happy Holidays
Tim Mooney
Well now Tim and I are in that unhappy disagreement place where if the conversation were political, fires would probably start. Since I think most of it is referencing my previous, I'll clarify a little. I agree with the oil primer, but the original question indicated the wood was already primed, at which point, adding an oil primer seems moot. Theres a gamut of "stain" products for different applications that come in latex and oil. Same story as the paint. Some of the latex is quite good, some not so much. SW Cuprinol solid color deck stain is one of the latex that seems to hold its own on decks and such through several seasons. But if the wood is already primed and all you want to do is add a finish coat, paint seems normal? Intuitive? Typical? Window glazing is offered in oil and latex as well. I've used them both. I personally don't care for the latex and the rare times I've seen new windows with non insulated glass in them, the glazing didn't take latex based paint. The instructions shipped with the unit specifically stated to prime with oil. The oil base glazing I use also won't take latex paint, and won't take oil unless its cured for at least 30 days. Thats not saying Tim is a cheeseball. He likes a different product than me.
Geez Tim, ya make it hard to disagree without pizzin ya!
" I have always wondered my self why people use latex stain instead of paint , plus pay the same price for it."
Two words
Martha Stewart
eight or ten years ago she said it was the cat's pajyamas and all of a sudden every self appointed expert painting homeowner was demanding stain instead of oil paint.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Original question...
Yes, an oil primer over exterior siding is best. The factory prime was a bit weak in the old days...sometimes it still looks like a whitewash. If yours is lacking, prime it again. It's especially important, as you only get one chance to properly backprime.
You can use a solid latex stain after priming the siding. Yes, priming with the intent of using a transparent stain is foolish...but for a solid color stain, or for a latex paint, it's what you want to do. Latex solid stain or paint over an oil primer on wood siding is the way to go.
Windows was covered. Oil prime, oil paint. No stain, just paint.
Hammer
I have to agree from experiance that oil primers are best. My question to you is ...why would you stain over it? I kind of dont get that. Why not just keep painting? Secondly.....if you do use oil paint be really careful. It takes a long time to dry and drips real easily after you've walked away. Go real easy with the amount of paint you put on your brush. Oil is a lot harder to use IMHO but more durable...So its give and take. Personally, if I were going to stain..then thats all I'd use.STAIN!
Have fun
Namaste'
andyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks to everyone for the input- sounds to me like oil base primer + paint is the way to go. To fill in the gaps on my original post - I am building a barn and going for a very traditional style- thus the wood windows and pine shiplap siding. The windows came preprimed and were not expensive but a nice 6 over 6 double hung with no primer on the glaze.
As to the paint vs stain argument my first comment is that when I go into my local hardware or paint store there is an awful lot of stain taking up shelf space and it seems like someone is pushing it. My original question about stain was because I bought a Cabot stain for siding that I thought might also work on the trim but the trim was pre-primed.
Since I have so much knowledge at my disposal one last question- how durable will the pine siding be? Can I do anything to prolong it's life beyone regular maintenance?
Thanks again. Chip