i reshingled my entire house with factoryprimed smooth western red cedar shakes. then i had it painted with california velvet flat exterior latex paint, which by the way is rated as the very best exterior paint. now about 4 weeks later i have bleedthrough allover the house. the color i used is a greygreen and the color thats bleeding through is brownish. that must be the tannin from the cedar shakes. so whats the point of ordering preprimed shakes if the primer is not good. the primer that was used by the factory appeared to be oilbased. what are my option? thanks for any help and advice you can give me.
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A painter that I work with always re-primes anything "factory."
Apparently, not all primers are compatible/bondable with all brands or types of paint...sounds to me like you might have to go back and hit the whole thing with a primer/stain blocker like Kilz.
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"
Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?"
God says, "Out on Highway 61."
Sounds like extractive bleed. I'd talk to the shingle supplier. One would think that the implied warranty of merchantability with a primed shingle would cover something as forseeable as this.
Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Book of Merlin
yep, tannin bleed. that's what happens when they take the lead out of paint. <G>
Like Andy says check with the Maker. But there could be another cause besides an inadequate or improperly applied primer. Excessive moisture coming through the exterior wall can push the tanin out through the paint.
If you determine that moisture isn't the culprit you need to throughly clean your siding, apply an oil based, stain resistant primer (in bad cases 2 coats primers) and 2 coats 100% acrylic topcoats.
Out of curiousity, what about water-based stain-blockers/sealers? As good as oil-based? I only ask because boss man just made us use Zinnser 1-2-3 water based to prime a bunch of redwood. It costs $20/gal vs. $27/gal for oil based and is of ocurse easy to clean up. Me, I'd spend the extra money, but then again, I never see the bills at the end of the month.
That's one of those questions that probably depend on who you ask. IMO you might get by with the latex primer if the bleed won't be to bad but why take the risk? While I have converted from oil to acyrlic for topcoats, I still think that for the time being oil is the way to go for exterior primers. Even if they did take the lead out. <G>
Barry E-Remodeler
So, the lead in the paint is why there was no bleed through in old applications?
I guess that's been my assumption. :)I do know that when I was still spraying primer with lead we had little problem with bleed. When they took it out, and this was before they developed some of the stain blockers to replace it, we couldn't stop the bleeding no matter how many coats we applied or if it was brushed or sprayed.Many of the builders stopped using cedar on the exterior because of it. Being it was before all the new materials and/ or green treat (here anyways).. fir and even sometimes pine was often the alternative. Boy did that get ugly. We were staining decks made completely of framing lumber. It wasn't a pretty sight. <G>
Barry E-Remodeler
The question isn't so much one of oil v. water, but whether or not that stainblocker specifically says it will block tannin or extractive bleed on red (or white, if that's what you've got) cedar. Not all extractives are the same, and paints that block extractive bleed on red cedar and redwood might or might not block them on, say, white pine. And vice versa. It's species specific, if you will, as the chemistry of the extractives varies.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Book of Merlin
that would have been a given.But if you have oil and latex both with stain blocking capabilities, and as I said given the complexity of the bleed, I will still take oil every time.I think most of the paint manufacturers are still recommending it also.
Barry E-Remodeler
All other things being equal, I agree that oil makes a superior primer. And I think you're right about the manufacturers' views, as well.
Now, for topcoats, I'll take a 100% acrylic resin paint on new work. Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Book of Merlin
That makes us 100% in agreement.On this issue anyway.
Barry E-Remodeler
Probably best we put each other on ignore, then. <G>Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein (or maybe Mark Twain)
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"Everything not forbidden is compulsory." T.H. White, The Book of Merlin
:)
Barry E-Remodeler
The supplier most likely has fine print in their installation instructions requiring stainblocking primer for cuts, new cracks, and any portion of the shakes that have surface defects in the primer from installation, and nobody reads instructions. It's common sense that a cut or split surface is no longer primed!
Whoever installed the stuff should have been sharp enough to warn you about this, but if they aren't being paid for finishing it's reasonable to assume a professional painter will know enough to at least spot prime exposed wood.
The painter should have known better and at least sprayed a coat of stainblocking primer as a precaution with any factory-primed surface. Regardless, he had to have seen bare wood in places screaming to be primed, which is the worst offense.
From where I sit, it looks like purely the fault of the painter unless either the suppier or installer had made completely idiotic claims.
Best of luck. :-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Who rates that paint as the very best - for what situations????
Best fo rwhat in other words?
I have never known a red cedar thjat did not bleed. I learned withing a few years of starting in construction that red cedar and redwood require paints and primers specially formulated to seal against extractive bleed through, as Andy has said. unless your painter just started in the business a few months before your job came up, he should have known to inspect the paint label.
Did you read it when you chose this paint yourself?
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I had a similar problem some years back. I stripped and repainted my house , one side at a time. My mistake was to strip and sand the entire side before priming. A rain storm or two drew the tannins to the surface (of which I was unaware) and it bled thru two coats of BM oil primer and acrylic finish. (It doesn't bleed thru immediately, or at least I didn't notice it.) The BM dealer recommended repriming witha tannin blocking oil primer be Finneran &Haley which worked fine. On the rest of the house I primed small sections as soon as they were stripped before the rain could get to it. I don't know if this product is available outside the northeast.