Hi everyone, I’m planning a small addition to our master bedroom ( 10′ out 12′ across from an exterior wall ) and was wondering what beam to use across the opening. I will continue with the existing 2×4 framing. The house is a prefab ( two halves ) bungalow, 3-12 pitch trusses out of 2×4 but we want to do cathedral ceilings ( probably 2×6 ). I’m also not sure how to frame up at the ridge. Do i end the framing so the ridge board is flush with the wall or do i continue an overhang to match the existing overhang measurement? Any thoughts?
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OK I found out that a tripple 2x2 will do the trick! Thanks to my neighbor Wilson!
I don't know your neighbor Wilson, but if he recommended a triple 2x2 for some sort of ridge beam, he is crazy in the head.or maybe you mistyped somethingThose photo files are too large to open for many of us, so thus the lack of response.
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Just Kidding! Wilson aka. The proffessor from Gilligan's Island on "Tim tool time" show. I was just trying to stir up some response. As for the pics...I'll size them down, thanks for the heads-up on that.
You can get a fair amout of spaciousness from a low cathedral cieling.
it does complicate some framing, ventilation, and insulation details tho.This first one with the SR on is 5/12 and the other two are 3/12
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Thanks for those pics. Nice Job! Even at 3/12 it adds a bit of visual interest and considering that Tanya and I spend a lot of time here , we think it's worth the extra time and effort.
Is that platform the footprint of your addition?
If it is, you won't need a ridge because it looks like your wall will be taking the place of the ridge. You will end up with a single element roof structure and aside from sizing the rafters to the span you need to size them for the required insulation plus air space.
Of course, you could park a ridge along the top of your plates if you wish and leave a length out to support the barge rafter. Do you plan to have a short eave extension to the outside (left)? Short rafters with rafter returns to the wall.
In your first photo it looks like the original intent was to have a load bearing ridge, but I see trusses mounted to each side instead of conventional lumber. Or was this a modular house delivered in two sections and then joined?
Yes, you are correct. It's is a modular house. The soffit overhangs are even hinged all the way along the length of the house ( I presume for shipping ). The ridge will fall onto that wall and was thinking to add a bit of a soffit, but i realize this may look a bit akward. Do you think I could get by with 2x8 for the roof? That would give me 1-1/2" air dam and the remainder for Icynene.
You have some pretty heavy insulation requirements in Canaada.. I am not sure of the R-value for icynene, but sprayed in polyurethene is worth about R7. In the seven inch spaceof a 2x8, that gives you R-49.If Icy is worth r%, then you can get maybe R35 there.With either, you eliminate dewpoint and would not need ventilation if your local AHJ accepts that fact.In those photos of mine, The 3/12 pirch was framed with 2x6, FG batts, and1-1/2" of Thermax spanned across the face of the rafters for about R19. It is only a summer cabin type place.
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<<With either, you eliminate dewpoint and would not need ventilation if your local AHJ accepts that fact.>>
TS,
If you don't ventilate above the insulation, you're almost sure to get an ice dam every winter. That's something that happens when there's a difference in temperatures between the roof surface above the living space and the roof's overhang. When outside temperatures rise enough to just melt snow on the roof, even a slight difference in temperatures between those two surfaces will cause ice to form on the colder, outside/low edge of the roof. As the melt/freeze cycles continue, a dam of ice forms at the outside/coldest section and the ice continues to rise on a level plain. Each time there's enough warmth, the newly melted water creeps under the shingles at the increasing higher level, eventually climbing under shingles which are protecting the inside of the house, then finding its way through the roof into the living space.
This is more likely to happen, the lower the pitch of the roof. When it does, there's nothing that can be done about it until spring, save chopping off the ice and damaging the roof.
Any ice dam will cause damage to the roof's overhang, just by soaking the underlayment each time there's a melt. When OBS gets soaked and then freezes, it loses it's strength rapidly.
This is one of the problems I was alluding to in my first post on this thread.
Edited 4/24/2007 11:13 am ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Mr Wilson must know a source of supply for some hellaciously strong lumber if he said use a triple 2x2. Hope you meant 2x10.
Contrary to what Hudson valley, said, a cathedral ceiling would certainly add some headroom and I think you should plan to buld it that way."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
My two cents. Well, I did not spit my coffee all over the computer screen, but 3 in 12 pitch ceilings, for my two cents, always look silly. I hate scissor trusses for this reason. A cathedral ceiling is supposed to look like a lodge. I is supposed to make people believe the ceiling is right up there on the rafters.
3 in 12 will give you head room, but is not much of an archetitural feature.
Again my two cents.
"A cathedral ceiling is supposed to look like a lodge."First time I ever heard that rule.Lofting a ceiling adds space and light to a room. If that is the goal and it fits the interior finish otherwise, then it works just fine.OTOH, a steep open beamed ceiling is nice, but can look downright silly if this addition is the only place in the house that trys to look like a lodge.
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So, now it is your turn to nearly slanderously read something new into a post? Who said anything about the only one room having character? Geez!
"Who said anything about the only one room having character? Geez!"The poor OP who started thios thread asking for advice is only doing one room. That is the context of the subject at hand.Glad I could help you get back on track.
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It will do two things for the room: add a little head room, and eliminate a flat ceiling plane. Hey, it's his castle, he didn't ask for style opinions, just how to frame it properly."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Hey I agree, perhaps not much of a castle for most but my little castle of 180k is well...just that...my little castle. Thanks for all your inputs, I'm just trying to add a bit of interest to this dull symmetry. Maybe I should go beyond the existing roof line and up an extra foot and flash the difference, with that i could use at least 2x8 which should give me enough room for insulation and an air dam...no? Sorry about the large pics...i can't figure out how to reduce them before posting.
This is true. However, there are numerous people in this very thread with various opinions on the subject. Secondly, I suppose you are correct in saying that if someone wishes to polish a turd, and you could save them from their fate, you could hold your head and say "he never asked". Or . . .
Good goolly! Everyone has an opinion. I happen to be of the opinion that "catherdals" with 2 in 12 or 3 in 12 pitches look silly at best. My opinion. Others have different opinions. No need for you to be so threatened by simple opinions.
I suspect that using the phrase "cathedral ceiling" for a 12X10 room with a 3/12 roof has most of us older guys doing spit takes over our morning coffee. Cleaning off the computer screen would be next, then moving on to the next topic so as avoid repeating the initial reaction would logically follow.
That may just be the reason for the lack of response to your OP.
Now that it's late and there are no beverages nearby, I'll try to tackle your question. You don't need a beam. Forget the open ceiling. It isn't a good idea for many reasons. Build everything to match existing heights. Then buy or make some simple king post trusses, giving them enough overhang/height to accomodate the appropriate insulation. Slap the inside truss against gable end, scribe and cut the siding, then proceed to install the roof. Follow the existing exterior finish. Viola, something you can manage with relative ease, live with and be proud of.
I thought that might raise a few eyebrows, sorry didn't mean to kick the chair from under you LOL. Just curious as to why you think the cathedral ceiling (maybe i'm using the wrong term) is a bad idea? It shouldn't be that difficult to follow the roof line on half of the house, would it? The reason i was asking about the beam is for the framing inspection. I know there is more than one way to skin a cat but city hall says... Thanks for your input! Cheers!
Glad you enjoyed the imagery! BTW a small cathedral would be about twenty feet high at the peak and thirty feet wide with a roof pitch of 16/12 so...3/12 roofs are more like an "open shed". The difference might be characterized by, on the one hand, a priest offering solemn communion in church and, on the other, a red neck cookin' up some road kill on the backyard BBQ.
Not to, in any way, denigrate your abode but..uh...it's potential for inclusion in Cathedral Quarterly ain't real high.
The problem with sticking up some rafters without ceiling joists is that they'd have to be very large dimension in order to make room for insulation. Then you still need a little room on top for ventilation. You can do 2X10s but in a 12' room a 3/12 pitch will only gain you a foot and a half of headroom, in the center of the room. So it doesn't make much of an impression and it uses a lot more lumber.
The term "cathedral ceiling" has been used all across the country as a style where the ceiling is pitched to the ridge instead of being flat. It doesn't matter what the pitch is.I thought you were finding humour in something else.The building does not have to bear any resemblance to a catherdal to allow use of that term. Even cheap modular housing has cathedral ceilings nowdays.
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Yes, operative word . . . cheap. And a 2 in 12 or 3 in 12 "cathedral" ceiling looks . . . cheap. JMHO.
Your opinion is anything but humble
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you mean a foot and a half at the high end. Hey , that's more than what we have now and sure would beat the boring flat ceiling. I'll post pics when i'm done...but i have lots to do so it may be a while.
TS,
OK. I respect your decision though I don't believe it'll make much difference to the feel of the room. Remember it's important to ventilate the space above the insulation, top and bottom. Otherwise you may get an ice damn which can cause roof leaks and other damage. I've seen it happen...more often with low pitched roofs.
Hey, Hudson . . keep the opinions to yourself! They are not asked for or appreciated. LOL!
<<Hey, Hudson . . keep the opinions to yourself! They are not asked for or appreciated. LOL!>>
What are you talking about, fool?
Thanks for your professional advise and replies to my question. What I have learned from all of this....There ain't much on TV at 1 in the mornin' LOL
Edited 5/1/2007 7:13 am ET by timestamps
Pardon my comment that even cheap modulars are using cathedrals. I just now took some time to download these monsters and see that you have a modular.
You do not need a beam to open up that end wall as long as you leave the existing trusses there, The end wall supports nothing except in the center where both houses meet and on the eave wall that supports the truss ends.
But if you plan to raise the ceiling in the whole room, all bets are off. I would then suggest that you need an engineer to modify what is there now.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!