I have a question regarding a deck I am going to build. Customer wants a patio out of pavers but I will have to bring in a lot of fill to bring it up to patio door height and the house is built on a rock on a lake with minimal access to lake front. I am thinking about building a deck using pressure treated lumber with decking material and then putting rock in a box around the outside to make it look like it is a patio from the lake. I think that i am going to use marine plywood around the outside of the of the deck and then adhere the rock to that with limestone ov er the top o fthe rocks. Has anyone ever done or seen anything like this or see a problem with this? If so do you have pictures or access to websites that may show me some samples.
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Greetings sk,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
I don't think you'll get much encouragement for that idea.
You really think you can build a PT deck that will support pavers easaier than hauling inch minus around back there? I think it will cost twice as m,uch and have to be replaced in a few years.
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I will have to bring in at least two feet of quarry process and fill to reach the height I need to set the pavers. Why will it be replaced in a few years? It will be built with all weather proofed materials.
The industry statistic is that the average deck is torn off after about 9 years. Then it is landfilled. With the pressure treatment the wood doesn't rot, but it continues to weather as fast as if it were untreated. Slowing the process with treatments requires work and expense every year. In heavily shaded or damp areas decks can grow slippery.
Personally, I much prefer a patio to a deck, not only for longevity, but because it has zero maintenance, and the look is much more in harmony with the surrounding landscape. Since your customer prefers a patio, I would not discourage it.
As for your height problem, one way to handle it is to bring in less fill and construct stairs down from the doorway to a patio at a lower level. The stairs could be masonry (stone veneer, decorative block, etc.) or if cost is really an issue, they could be wooden. The stairs would need a landing outside the door, then steps down to the patio. Depending on the area the stairs could go out straight or down sideways.
You'll need at least 4" of crusher run and 1" of stone dust under pavers anyway at the high point. So you could make it a foot or so and have a couple of steps down from the door.
wood andstone move at different rates. frost and weather will destroy the conections
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
well that and treated lumber is hardly "weather proof"
Really, you should build the patio walls. Charge for crusher run or similar fill. Follow with stone dust or similar bedding for pavers as recommended by the manufacturer, and be done with it.
I built the same thing on my house 1 foot high. One more foot would be no problem. By the way, with the cost of building one of these, or rather, what you should be charging to build one, the cost of fill should be incidental. Are you close to pricing this correctly? In the NE, a manufactured stone patio, say 20' x 20' could go for between $10,000 -$20,000 and up.
I'm a little confused. Are you planning on building a wooden deck, complete with wood decking and then build walls around the exterior of the deck and cover them with stone?
The deck itself would be just a simple deck?
or are you planning on building a deck and then trying to lay a stone patio on top of it?
I am planning on building a wooden deck with trex or some other manufactured decking product then building walls (stone faced) around the deck to make it appear to be a patio. The problem is It is very hard to get from the back of the property to the front (lake-front). Money is not an issue for the customer. Once the material is in the front it will be hard to move it around. I was originally thinking about setting the pavers in a wooden bed with dust or qp but the weight and drainage would be a problem. I am just putting it out there to see if anyone had any experience with this type of job. Knowing that contractors brick face, stone face, foundations and plywood structures all the time (and having done a few in my own career) I was wondering if anyone had done a job to a deck. Believe me, I have this whole thing planned out and built in my mind with me sitting on the finished product enjoying a Molson XXX with my partner and the homeowner. Just was looking for some input.
THank you,
Skoolboy28
OK, sorry. NO pavers on top.
Sounds good, but I would still think you would wish to build in vents like those in a crawl space. Screen them off, of course! No need to get a den of coons under there with no way to get tehm out.
How far of a span off the house is the outside of the deck?
If money is know object I would build either a poured or block concrete wall around the perimiter and use that a support for the deck as well. I believe the concrete would make a far longer lasting substrate for your veneer stone or rock finish.
You'd allow for drainage through the wall too, wouldn't you?
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I am more of a carpenter than a mason and would rather work with wood--it is easier for me to build off piers than it is to pour a foundation especially on top of rock. Piffin you need to go back and read my original post before you respond to any more of the posts I put on here. I think you have a straw attached to your Molson XXX. Have one for me while you are at it.
I prefer Molson Golden.
TGNY
I do too but the homeowner turned me on to XXX because they are cost effective. Only 1.00 more a 12 pack. I drink them too fast and wind up sleeping on my own deck all night or just forgetting everything before my 3rd or fourth one. I only drink the XXX when he comes back from Florida in the Summer months.
OK, I missed that post.
Explains everything now. Go back to sleep XXX skoolboy...
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haven't had a drink for six weeks now.Read it again and it still sounds as dumb as a box of rocks
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If I didn't know any better, you sound like you are as drunk as a skunk. Maybe you don't need a drink to sound dumber than a box of rocks. maybe you ought to go back to drinking and you may read a little better. What is it that you do for a living besides give people poor advice on building. See you loot, skin flute!
you try building a box and just sticking some rocks to it for an exterior patio and your clients will be calling you a hack rip off the next year as it all falls apart.Where you are going wrong is in trying to tailor the job to your skills ( carpentry) when the job calls for a mason's skills. The right way to design a project is to select the best thing for the client then find the right way to provide it. You are going about it backazzwards and your customer will suffer first, then your reputation second.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You first description had me envisioning a walking surface of stone or pavers laid right on top of a wood framed deck. now it sounds like you want to build a stone perimeteer wall with the wood deck built between it and the house. Where do the pavers come in with that?
The more I read this, the confusder I git.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
so far as this post you have five of us recomending that your idea is a bad one and nobody encouraging your brainfart.Look at the data sheet on Trex and alll the other decking products and you will find that they require ventilation under neath them.
So what you want is a surface that the customer does not want ( it is not pavers) and is going against the manufacturers suggestions and will fail, yet you say I giove bad advice?!go back to skool for a few more years , grow up and learn to shave first
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I never said I wasn't going to ventilate it underneath--You just assumed that --as far as I can see you are the only one who is against my idea. By the way, thanks Brian for the wonder board Idea, I was thinking that idea also and think I will go that route. Thanks to all who gave me the good advice. Maybe you should fall off of the wagon Piffin, you were probably more enjoyable then. By the way, my reputation speaks highly for itself--I have never advertised and have worked for many people 4-5 times over and they keep calling and recommending me and I usually don't have time to read forums like these. I guess you aren't working too hard if you are manning your post on here all the time.
"I never said I wasn't going to ventilate it underneath-"Sure you did. You are going to enclose this with a faux rock wall around it. How will air get in there? Worse yet? How will water get out?
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Again! You old timer (I guess-since I am the kid) the ventilation and drainage which I am going to do(just because I don't let you know which advice I am going to take and not take doesn't mean I am not going to do it) came long after my first post about advice and pointers--maybe next time before I ask for some advice on this forum I will submit some plans to you first and you can look them over before I start---Not a chance!. I certainly did not think that I would get such a hard time from the "inspectors" or shoud I say "wannabes experts" that cruise these forums.
OH YEah!
For veterans...
Be open to new ideas from others. "The best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas." -Dr. Linus Pauling--
I guess this would pertain to You Piffin--taken from the Welcome to Breaktime--homepage--thanks again for all your help--maybe you ought to review the front page!
Just 'cause it's a new idea doesn't ,mean it's a good idea. I've already replaced more poorly done decks than you've had ideas about. I always feel bad for the homeowners who got stuck with them. Sopmeday yo0ur HO will loggin here and say,
"I asked a local guy to build me a patio. He was a hard-working young guy, but he had his own ideas about how to do things. I wanted a patio with pavers surfacing it, because of the long life and the way they stand up to weat5her. My wife thiought they appealed to her too. But this kid build us a wood framed deck and surronded it with a fake rock wal instead. There is moldy smells coming from under the deck, and the stones are falling off the wall surrond. what can we do to salvage this mess?"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Go get him tiger.
Not trying to 'get him', just need to make him think about some details - since he obviously doesn't have the experience to design this thing right. He's just using wrong material 'cause it's what he's comfy working with, regardless how inappropriate for the situation at hand.As far as it being oo hard to get fill back around there - faith can move mountains, one wheelbarrow at a time!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL, just teasing you.I was thinking that difficult access to the site would also impede carrying long lengths of framing lumber too. A wheel barrow might be easier.
I was thinking how big is the lake and why not bring it by boat.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
"Customer wants a patio out of pavers but"
but you want to do it some easier way
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
You never posted any of that to me earlier, you just criticized the project from the start. I was looking for advice and or suggestions--I thought this forum was for that. Why will it fall apart--I don't understand your thinking behind your criticism. When I finish this project I will send you pictures in few months and a few years and you can choke on them then. THanks for nothing!
That's where you are wrong again.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=74041.6I explained my reasoning early on but you didn't want to listen, kid. You are acting like an immature brat 'cause you aren't getting what you want. It is hard to give advice how to do something that should not be done because it is a bad idea.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I have seen cement board screwed to the rim of a deck and fake stone mortared to that - works pretty well, if you like the product.