Patio door/sidelight framing question
CindyTR
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Another question :-). I’m full of ’em today!
I’m trying to plan out a switch from a standard entry door onto our deck, to French doors with a single sidelight to either side. I’m assuming a common header over the whole shebang. How is the framing between the door and sidelights normally handled? One 2×4? Double 2x4s? Seems like double 2×4’s spiked together would be less likely to think about bowing/warping down the line, and that’s only about 4″ (including the 3″ for the 2x4s)between the door and either sidelight which seems a good size for trim.
Thanks!
Replies
How is the framing between the door and sidelights normally handled?
Depends on who builds them. Gee, that's helpful, ain't it?
See, you can go to the bigger outfits like Marvin, Ansersen, etc., and they'll combine stock units to make up specific results. Those folk generally will tell you (or ask) whether you want/must have one or two 2x in between the "openings" (which is really just one big header-ed opening, usually). The manufacturer usually notes what is needed on the paperwork with the unit, along with what ever capping trim matches the rest of the unit's finish.
If, on the other hand, wanted to have, sidelight, door, sidelight--then two things "drive" that design. One is the exterior trim for the doors and windows. The other is--no big surprise--the interior trim. That could mean 'needing' 2 or 3 or 4 2x.
Now, since you are remodeling, that's both good and bad. Good, in that, going from, oh say, a 3'-0" door to a 5'-0" French pair with sidelights means opening most of the wall up, giving really good access to properly set a proper header and all.
Bad, in that you get to rip open a healthy bit of "perfectly good wall" to do all this. That's remodeling.
At least you are not asking how to replace a 6-0 patio door with a 5-0 French and 2 1-0 sidelights without replacing the header . . . (ick, saw that house the other day <shudder, shudder>) <grin>
Your Profile does not show your area (hint, hint); it can be a good idea to consider, with french doors, how you will handle weather and bug interactions. That makes for important considerations in swing-in versus swing-out, or center-hinged versus outside-hinged. Now is a better time to sort that out--but that could just be bitter experience speaking <g>.
Thanks! Will probably be going with Pella for this; we replaced a couple of windows in another room with Pella, so in the interest of some sort of uniformity (besides they seem to be decently crafted units)will be using them."Perfectly good wall" in this case is something of an overstatement. This particular wall is one that was built to close in an open porch at some point in time. The whole room (best definition is "den") is a conundrum (don't get to use that word much!) which I've been tinkering with designwise, and which I am starting to, slowly, work on. If I remember correctly, there's a double 2x10 "header" already going from one side of the room to the other on that exterior wall. I've never seen anything like it in my reading, perhaps someone has run across such in practical experience. If I can find the space I'll still be sticking an additional header under it, although I'll be losing some of the 8'6" ceiling height from leveling the floor.What I'm really trying to figure out, is I'm fixing to get started on the interior of this room, pulling out old paneling and replacing with sheetrock, putting down a "false" floor to level up a sloping concrete floor, removing a couple windows, etc., but I don't want to put in a door until summer. I'm trying to figure out if I can get the framing for a new door done on the inside and just leave it until then so I can work around it with my drywall work. Otherwise I'm going to have to wait on doing that wall on the interior and I really want to get started on this. The exterior won't be much of a concern. Right now it consists of painted cedar shingles that are in bad shape so we're going to replace the whole back wall, including my shop, with Hardie lap siding anyway.
This is the mess as it exists now along with the "inside bbq pit" that I'm still trying to figure out what to do about. You can see I've made something of a start on the drywall, but it's been like that for over a year now and I'm starting to get tired of looking at it:
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if I can get the framing for a new door done on the inside and just leave it until then so I can work around it with my drywall
Yeah, actually that can make a lot of sense--as long as you were planning on a bare-to studs strip of the wall anyway.
Now, this can "look" weird, you start in, installing 6, or 7, or 8' of header with appropriate studs and all. It can look odder if your new drywall terminates where it will need to the in the future; and there's, oh, primered T1-11 from the end of the d/w to where the "retained" door is sitting.
Since this is a former porch, I cannot express how happy I am to hear that you want to get the wall open (some do not). Far too often in my experience, the porch wall gets "filled in" with wall ("Oh, it's ok, by mother's brother's sister's uncle's neighbor boy is a carpenter, he did it.") and it gets treated as if it were "just as good as" a 'regular' wall.
I tend to eye all ex-porch walls with suspicion until proven otherwise (yeah, we'll just use the header that's there--whaddya mean, "What header?" being oh so bad <sigh>).
Getting the walls open, evein if only the once will make things like electricity easier, too (or discovering abandonded plumbing or gas fittings or hvac vents & the like).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
To be truthful, I don't think it can possibly look much odder than it does now. What's really going to look odd is where I take those windows out and frame them up and fill in. I have no intention of filling in on the outside with $200 a square cedar shingles for something that's going to be up for a few months at best, so it'll probably be tarpaper with a piece of T-111 filling in. Hopefully we can get the Hardie up before fall, it's only about 35' of wall so I'm hopeful.Guess the best I can do is call the guys at Pella, see if I can get some feel for exactly how big the rough opening for a 5/0 French door setup with 2 sidelights needs to be (all the while hoping I can get all that for >$1,500) and go for it. About the worst that can happen is I'll get the wall stripped down and discover that it ain't gonna be easy for whatever reason and put the whole project on hold 'til summer.
Actually now I think about it, I've got some goodly sized scraps of sheet "bead" board from where I'm turning one end of my shop into a utility room. I could use that to fill the gap between the drywall and the original door. If it's just tacked up with a few finishing nails it should close it in nicely temporarily and not be a huge mess to take back down when the time comes.
Actually now I think about it, I've got some goodly sized scraps of sheet "bead" board from where I'm turning one end of my shop into a utility room. I could use that to fill the gap between the drywall and the original door. If it's just tacked up with a few finishing nails it should close it in nicely temporarily and not be a huge mess to take back down when the time comes.
Sounds like you're on the right track.
You may need to pick out one style of pella french door and note the model number. Then, the people on the phone over there are pretty sharp on answering things like, "ok, if I get a XXnnYYzzz, and I want two 1-0 sidelights; what ROs should I frame to?"Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)