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The more I learn about crosslinked polyethylene (PEX) tubing, the more it seems like the ideal alternative to copper pipe for household water distribution.
Particularly for the whole-house replumbing I will be undertaking in conjunction with remodeling all baths and kitchen (replacing rusting iron pipe.) It’s cost is comparable or less, a minor consideration, but it’s ease of installation in an existing structure seems ideal.
All the feedback I have received suggests that it is superior or equal to copper in every way. The only negative words I have heard are from those who confuse it with other plastic systems that have had problems, and from some plumbers who are used to copper, wouldn’t dream of changing, but who have no knowledge of PEX.
I would love to see a FHB article on the subject!
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Me too! I have read about it, talked to the local "experts", etc but am still not certain I am able to separate the facts from the snake oil. Having survived aluminium wiring, techite sewer pipe, at least three revivals of radiant in floor heating and the last plastic do-all pipe that ended up in the courts I sure would like some more facts before I make up my mind.
If y'all would see fit to do a good article on this important part of homebuilding I'd appreciate it.
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I agree with Fred.Ive seen too many "solutions" that were not proven for the long run. I can not afford callbacks especially if water is envolved Sure I can say it is the plumbers problem....but not if I sold the job and it has my name on it. It will be a long time before I recommend anything other then copper or cpvc in a home. In a horse barn or something sure. However it does have one true beauty and that is stringing it through like running wire.
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PEX has certainly been proven over the long haul. It's been in use in Europe for both heating and potable water for over 25 years. In fact, one company that manufactures it, Wirsbo, guarantees it for 25 years if installed by a certified installer. Certification requires a plumber to take a 1/2 day class on PEX installation procedures.
It can be installed conventionally, that is, with a main pipe and feeders coming off it just like copper or by using the "home run" method where the supplies to each individual faucet come off a central manifold. It's fast to install and costs less than copper. It's totally inert and, unlike CPVC, it doesn't shatter when the water in the pipes freezes. It just expands a little and returns to its normal shape upon thawing.
*I have read every possible review on PEX and manifold plumbing systems, and have visited new construction homes with these systems installed. As an engineer by trade that's always demanding quality products, I'm convinced that the system is better than traditional copper, mostly for its ability to save on water and energy. I will be installing either a Vanguard or Wirsbo system in a new home for myself this summer.A word of caution: if YOU aren't the plumber, then get really familiar with the product and installation instructions from the manufacturer, and supervise the installation like a hawk. Most plumbers, even some certified ones, haven't installed many of these systems and may forget a few details. For example, in an installation I just recently saw in Tacoma, WA, the plumber neglected to provide an expansion loop in each of the PEX water lines, as called for in the Vanguard installation literature. Apparently, this stuff expands and contracts significantly (axially) as the water temperature changes within the tubing. If the system is installed in the summer without expansion loops, then a slug of near-freezing cold water in the winter will contract the tubing, potentially pulling the tubing away from some fixture connections. Water everywhere and a few headaches!Question: I've heard Wirsbo offers a 25-year warranty if installed by a certified plumber. Does anyone know if Vanguard does the same?
*Copper's scared. Have you seen the full page adds and the new warrantees they have?? They didn't put forth any campaign when PB or CPVC went to market.I think they know PEX may subplant copper as the supply pipe of choice in the forseeable future.I researched 6 PEX companies and opted for Kitec by Ipex. It's a PEX-AL-PEX system. The aluminum core serves as the oxygen barrier and gives the tubing regidity like soft copper. It snakes well and stays in place. Not as much of the expansion / contraction problem. I buried it outside to supply my hose bibs throughout the yard and don't bother draining them. This will be the third year and no problems. It supposidly can take -40f freezing without burst.Now if only I could convince my normally conservative clients to use something better that costs less..... That's always the problem; people think cost is directly proportional to quality...Go for PEX
*You folks sure make PEX sound good. A couple more questions: Long warranties are only good if the company is around to make it good. Are these companies sound enough to really make good if needed? You folks make it sound like the copper replacement. Is there anything bad about it, other than putting plumbers out of business that is?
*I don't think PEX will make any plumbers go out of business. Rather, they will simply take the short certification course offered by the manufacturer and slowly switch over to installing and repairing PEX plumbing systems. I'm not a plumber, but after working with mostly copper for a bazillion years, I'd think that most plumbers would welcome a change of scenery.
*Can PEX tubing be snaked through a wall once it's been closed in?I've wondered what happens if a PEX tube ruptures within a wall cavity. The leak would be easy to isolate since every line has its own shutoff valve at the manifold, but how easy is it to repair?It's probably extremely unlikely that a tube would spontaneously rupture; it's probably more likely that a misfired nail would puncture a tube. Many people love to put nails in a wall to hang their favorite picture, install closet shelving, etcetera. I imagine that some of those folks are oblivious to the possible dangers lurking within the wall cavity and the potential for damage. Building codes require strike plates on studs where wires and tubes are too close to the wall surface, but this provides protection only right at the stud. Miss the stud by a fraction of an inch, and you're playing Russian roulette, so to speak.Can PEX be patched? Is it possible to pull a new line through the wall cavity, using the failed PEX line as a fishing line?Inquiring minds want to know!
*Vanguard offers a 10-year warranty if installed by a qualified plumber who uses only Vanguard components. (To answer my own previous question about a Vanguard warranty.)
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Mike;
* Is the AL core solid or a siral wound strand?
* Does the AL core provide a "listed" ground path?
* Does the local (electric) code require grounding of the AL core?
I grew up in Minnesota.
i "Plastic"
supply lines were banned for many reasons, especially due to the cold weather and the inherent disadvantages of conventional plastic. Copper supply lines conduct electricity and that advantage allows one to use an arc welder connected on each end of a frozen line to thaw it without digging or waiting for the spring thaw.
JE
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Chris,
It's already been determined that PEX is the logical solution for me to replace clogging iron pipes from my basement to the second floor bathroom. The cost to have a plumber install copper in an "old work" area like that is a budget buster. It'll snake up the two levels with no problem.
*JE,If you say that hooking an arc welder up to copper water lines will thaw them out, I guess I can't argue, having never done it myself. I also haven't heard of anyone else doing it, either, and I'm in western Wisconsin. But grounding shouldn't be an issue in light of modern plumbing codes, and the likelihood of being able to thaw out frozen pipes with an arc welder doesn't carry the copper argument. We insulate our plumbing around here for the most part.
*The welder works OK with type K copper, but don't try it with anything thinner or you'll melt the copper as well as the ice. And if the water piping is installed right to begin with, you don't have to worry about freezing.The AL core in some PEX does not have an electrical function. This type of PEX is used in heating applications to avoid gas problems associated with the heated water.
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I love to see this topic on PEX. I have become a real fan of PEX in the past year or two, doing a lot of research into the various manufacturers and their products. I decided I like the Wirsbo system the best, so last year I took the certification course, and last fall I did a complete re-plumb on our summer cabin.
This stuff is so great to work with! The ease of installation has got to be one of the big selling points. It only took me about two hours to plumb the entire place, including all the hookups!
I don't know if PEX will ever put copper out of business. There is definitely a place for both products. But PEX has so many advantages it doesn't really deserve to be overlooked either! With the Wirsbo system, you need to buy a special tool that expands the PEX so that it will accept a brass fitting. The tool is expensive. But the connections made with this tool are very quick and very secure. And I really like the "Home Run" distribution system. The idea of running one length of tubing from a central distribution manifold out to the fixture, without any intervening joints has many benefits. Every joint you put in a line reduces water pressure.
The PEX has a lot more tolerance to freeze/thaw, so you don't have the splitting and breaking as with other products. If you kink it during the installation, you can heat it up and take the kink out without ruining the tubing. If you hammer a nail into a wall, and it runs into PEX tubing, it is flexible enough that it will usually just move out of the way rather than be punctured. It does require expansion loops, and it must be protected from UV, but there aren't many down sides to this stuff.
This is long enough. If you have questions, please ask them.
Scott.
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I figured that PEX can be easily snaked through an empty wall cavity. What I meant was can it be snaked through the holes in the wall studs, pulling in a new PEX line by pulling out the old one. I imagine it might be difficult-to-impossible to pull it through some of the tighter bends in a run.
*I hope you know what you/ve done! You have created extra work for me doing the certification and the next plumbing job with PEX :):)
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The more I learn about crosslinked polyethylene (PEX) tubing, the more it seems like the ideal alternative to copper pipe for household water distribution.
Particularly for the whole-house replumbing I will be undertaking in conjunction with remodeling all baths and kitchen (replacing rusting iron pipe.) It's cost is comparable or less, a minor consideration, but it's ease of installation in an existing structure seems ideal.
All the feedback I have received suggests that it is superior or equal to copper in every way. The only negative words I have heard are from those who confuse it with other plastic systems that have had problems, and from some plumbers who are used to copper, wouldn't dream of changing, but who have no knowledge of PEX.
I would love to see a FHB article on the subject!