I have spent hours on the ‘Net, in the library, and a lot of time here looking for good photos of the ceiling we’d like.
We have: 1 story house, with 1/2 attic. Currently, 8-foot gyprock ceilings.
Plan: remove rock ceiling from 2/3 of house. Leave all structural parts (joists, rafters) intact and in place. For underside of roof, batt insulation, then t&g (reclaimed stuff cuz I’m an old hippie girl).
Photo should show open “beams” (joists, rafters) 2 feet O.C. going across the ridgeline and then the wood ceiling above.
Anybody know where I can find a photo???
My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
Replies
Something like this?
View Image
View Image
Here's a link to some more pics from the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/02/12/garden/20090212-dub-slideshow_index.html
7200 sq ft top floor of a warehouse in SOHO.
Thanks! We're getting there, but not quite. I'm sure it's because I don't know the correct vocabulary, so let me try again: Tiny house--770 sq ft. Shy-8-ft ceilings, so if we take the rock off the ceilings there will be bare rafters/crosspieces/joists that the rock was attached to. Those bare wood pieces will remain (if we take them out, we'll have to put in beams to keep the walls from falling in!).Way above, on the inside of the roof, is where we'd construct a new ceiling--the correct layer of R-38, then faced with the t&g.So, when we look up, at about the 8-foot mark are those joists/rafters, then at the top of the attic (inside of roof) is the new t&g ceiling.We won't take the ceiling off over the entire house, just the living room and kitchen (the "west wing") and leave the bedrooms and bath (the "east wing") with flat ceilings.Many thanks for your detective work. This is not easy to find in our scale. Warehouses have this setup, but the scale would not tell us what it would be like to live with the setup I described starting at 8 feet above our heads!My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=ensafe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=ceiling+%2B+exposed+beam&btnG=Search+Images
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Thank you. In one of the real estate ad photos I could see a tiny corner of the ceiling I'm looking for. Will keep looking!LMy favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
There was an article in Fine Home Building, with in the last year, on doing something similar to what you are describing. The author did the cross tie and removed the trusses though. (Sorry but I can't remember the issue, or the article title.) there were several threads here on Breaktime, and one or two people posted pictures of ceilings done like I think you are wanting to do, where the trusses stayed in place, and the ceiling was raised around the trusses.
I thought about something similar in my place, (seventies ranch with 8-foot ceilings), but decided that it didn't make sense to add that much more volume to heat in the winter.
Thanks. I do appreciate your thoughts. I found an article called something like From Flat to Cathedral Ceiling. It inspired our wish to open the ceiling, but they faced the new ceiling with rock.... My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
here's a couple
probably not what I understand you to be specifically looking for.
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Yes, so close! The only difference is that we're leaving all the joists/rafters that are all 24 indhes OC, so our upper limits will be a little crowded/busy. The first two pics of the vaulted ceiling are the effect we're going to achieve since we're leaving all the structural elements in place. So lovely. The third pic, with the flat, timber-framed ceiling is gorgeous!Thank you. I'm still plowing through the Google pics and haven't found anything yet. I know it's there somewhere!My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
On the jobsite, Oops is a four letter word
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Ooops! My background is in writing and editing, so words rather than the kinds of oooops that can cause injury or damage. (my next favorite word is "Uh-oh." How about that one instead?!)My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
That was a joke taking off on the fact that oops is a better word to use than some of the other four letter words that fly out on jobsites.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I hoped so, but I sure don't want to be offensive! (I've just been in the Tavern and have been watching the young man who needs to think before he types and to trust that all of us older folk have taken some punches and often know something about humility and grace. So there!)My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
ah yes, the one who purports to be the catcher of Dreams....I tend to be brief and to the point in some of my answers and don't waste a lot of digital ink on trying to be tactfull. Once in a while somebody takes something personal when not intended, then like an elephant they never forget. Just another "Oh Well" woven into the tapestry of life.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Email as a communication form is tricky--we don't get any of the usual body language cues from the speaker, so lots of room for interpretation. Best to explain once and ask that we move on, so yes... "oh well" is good! (I'm so glad I'm not in my 20s anymore--the more I realize I don't know the more relaxed I am!)Still looking for photos--found one or two, but now have to learn how to attach a photo here! So, thank you still....My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
next favorite word is "Uh-oh."
3year old grandson's favorite too.
Hope he grows out of that.
Joe H
Uh oh is good! So full of meaning!My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
couple more
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Wow. That reminds me of a beach house I visited on Cape Cod (about a hundred years ago). Do you think there is insulation behind those walls and ceiling?My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
I know what is there, I built it.That is exposed framng - the guy wanted it to ook like old un-insulated camps. Shiplap sheathing, then foam panels, then roof or siding over furring
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I want to use shiplap as the t&g--we're kinda rough-and-tumble folks--and fairly casual. Which does not equate to "don't care about esthetics." Somehow we have to marry the two things--small budget with big ideas. I'm stubborn and do believe if I ask nicely, this will be possible!
We have a recycled home parts store here that had a bunch of 6-inch shiplap for only 65 nts a LF! Now that's in our budget!My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
I'd have to check, but I think I get new 6" T&G for 95 cents and it looks ten times as good as used shiplap would
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Really? I had no idea! We'd like to use reclaimed wood if at all possible. Haven't really figured out the t&g, just that it's wood and reclaimed! I was wondering if we can use any of the old attic floor somehow....My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
From your description, it sounds like you want to expose the ceiling joists, and cover the rafters above with T&G.
Question: How are going to achieve R-38 in your roof? That would equate to 8 to 10 inches of foam, depending on type and installation. Plus, you want/need an inch or so of ventilation space above the foam. How big are your rafters -- do you have room for this amount of insulation between the rafters? (I'd be surprised.)
FWIW, you MAY be able to eliminate some (or even many) of the old ceiling joists and open things up a bit more. You'll want to consult an architect or engineer if you decide to do that though. IMHO, in a space that small, a joist at 8' every 16" would kinda take away from the effect you're looking for.
I once lived in the second floor of a barn that was put together something like what you're describing. Bedroom and bath had low ceilings, the rest of the place was high rafters. This was before anyone worried much about insulation tho', and I just "insulated" between the rafters with Homosote. I loved the look, and would probably do it again given the chance, but I'd first spend a lot more time and effort figuring out the heating/cooling issues it raises due to the high-ceiling heat traps. You may want to consider that as well before pulling out the wrecking bar.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike, yes, you understand our setup and the effect we'd like to achieve. I did go to the City of Tacoma Building and Planning Dept and came away with a sketched plan that shows how to accommodate the R38--kinda building a false ceiling where the air space and insulation live, then facing with t&g. We also would like to relocate the ceiling fan up there--at the current ceiling height, I've already hit the fan several times while moving furniture or when I was taking down a wall. It makes a horrid noise and I didn't like it hitting my head! Sorry, I digress. We have a woodstove that we sized purposefully to accommodate an open ceiling....We also are concerned about the busy-ness of all those joists at 24" OC and have been thinking about talking to the structural engineer who helped us determine bearing/nonbearing walls. Thank you also for the terminology--even the City guy was using joist and rafter interchangeably and that has made it hard to communicate the picture I'm trying to draw with words.In the Taunton article that skip555 sent, the photos were very helpful. Interesting idea, too, just doing skylights over a small area. The joists are 24 OC.Thanks for chiming in. This seems to be a group project, which I'm really enjoying. I wish I could give back to the forum--maybe someday!LaurelMy favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
"I wish I could give back to the forum--maybe someday!"
Pics of the project would fill that bill.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I will do that! Thanks. I didn't think of that.My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
the City guy was using joist and rafter interchangeably
Well, given your lexigraphical bent, let me clarify that.
All rafters are joists, they are "roof joists." Not all joists, are rafters, naturally.
Just be glad we have no purlins to further complicate the nameing of the structural "bones."
Back to your house. What sorts of ductwork are presently in the above-ceiling space? You may find you need a bit of rearranging to work around the ducting. Also, double check for electrical cabling among the ceiling joists. It will want moving to open your ceiling, and codes will insist on j-boxes at the changes, and not all junction boxes are "lovely."Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
So, basically, I need to carry around a big ole labeled diagram until I learn the parts. It's not easy to get a bid when I'm waving my arms around pointing and gesturing at the slanted bits or the horizontal bits! Thanks. Roof joists must be the slanted bits of the triangle (hypotenuse), yes? What the heck are rafters, then, those things that are running perpendicular to the ridgeline and are spaced 24" OC?! Ceiling/floor joists?! Never mind. I'll go look it up. <:-D And while I'm at it, I'll look for purlins. Tell me, would anyone here be interested, do you think, in looking at the sketch the City guy made of the new ceiling system? I could scan it and post, I do believe.Ductwork: kitchen and bath vents. Wiring: We have k&t so there are the long stretches of wiring across the attic. Re: j-boxes. No not lovely, but if we do leave the ceiling joists, wiring and boxes can be camouflaged there. Originally, we wanted to take out the whole structural ceiling and have beams as the support. Even having a struct engineer sizing them right now. But up came $$$ and we tried to be creative. The electrician we want to hire came up with a great scheme for giving us some dedicated circuits and for routing a kitchen light switch. At first, he thought we'd have a dozen j-boxes, then he started drawing pictures in the air above his head and came up with very few boxes! (Frankly, his creativity is what pushed us to pursue opening the ceiling!)Thanks for helping me find the vocabulary for this stuff!My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
The roof rafters are the sloping framing hat is supporting the roof. They are a type of joist, but usually called rafters.Jpoists are usually the horizontal members tht suppot loads, such as the floor framing.The frame member that ou are trying to expose that connect from one rafter to another just over your head are collar tiesThis is if this is all stick framed from theseindivdual parts on site.When a roof is built with trusses these parts are pre-assembled inn slightly different fashion and have different names like top hord where the rafters are, bottom chord where your floor joists are and web where you have ....let's stop before I confuse you
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You can't confuse me! I'll look it up! Actually, I'm beginning to get the picture quite clearly--repetition is good. So.... we want to see our collar ties. The more pictures I see, the more I learn. So, again, thank you for continuing to fill my brain.
Our house is stick built on site (1949) and the struct engr has been drawing pictures for me. Oh yes, we also have a hip and gable roof, with only one side with a partial soffit!
Not to speak of k&t wiring and insufficient attic insulation. The insulation question is how all of this happened--well, because of the k&t, it was going to be difficult to insulate, so maybe we should take the ceiling, but before that, we should re-route some of the quite functional wiring. This is how it all starts--just trying to save the planet by insulating my house....
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My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
My reaction is that your open ceiling joists might be a bit close together visually to pull it off right. Let's say they are max 24" oc. Your eye really doesn't go up to the vaulted ceiling. A lot of members there. You MIGHT be able to e.g. eliminate every other joist, but that is a structural question that I'm unsure about. Normally you have a couple oversized collar ties (ceiling 'joists') with an open vaulted ceiling. These elements visually don't block your sense of the higher ceiling.
Imagine the one pic of the loft w/ no floor above and a vaulted roof/ceiling above that. Effectively, your eye would stop at the ceiling joists and you really wouldn't get the traditional 'feel' you might be looking for.
Food for thought.
those pics could have been taken in my lofts...
I ripped the roof off... installed 4" of foam board... then a new 5ply BUR... so i could expose all that... and still have an insulated building
P
take a look at this , might give you some ideas , you could just expand it
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/dramatic-skylight.aspx?LangType=1033&ac=fp
Edited 2/15/2009 12:18 pm ET by skip555
Thank you! I have already downloaded the article and will think about it. The cover pic made me gasp in recognition, so thank you thank you!My favorite word in the English language is Ooops!
Exposed Ceiling Joists
I've designed a cottage for the Canadian climate that achieved the results you are looking for. Bear with me. For the roof trusses I used parallel truss chords that were 20 inches deep and spaced at 24" on center. Here is a picture of a similar arrangement:
http://www.multinail.com/deploycontrol/images/upload/mc_parrallel_chords_steelwood_image_l.jpg
Then I took 2"X12" douglas fir lumber and sistered them to every second truss. By this I mean I nailed them to the side of the trusses. That said, I notched them at the top of the wall plate so that they hung down 4 inches deeper then the trusses themselves (i.e. they were set into the room 4 inches). Also, each set of 2"X12" were attached at the peak like rafters so they weren't really bearing on the trusses. The trusses were just holding them in the right place. Then I attached the T&G lumber to the underside of the trusses (vapour barrier first though) and at the side of the dimensional lumber essentially creating the same look you are going for. You will need to nail a piece of wood along each pieec of lumber to act as a nailing strip. 18 inches of insulation on top of the T & G lumber, sheathing on top of the trusses, shingles.....Bingo.
Not the cheapest way to do it but it is warm as hell in a Canadian winter.
in summary.. I built the roof using parallel truss chords deep enough to achieve the desired R-value. THen I sistered every second truss with a rafter that was notched at the top plate so that it would be set into the room. The rest you should be able to figure out.
Dennis Hopper's House
Probably not what you're looking for, but along the same lines. Thought I'd toss it in for those that might be interested. Click on "view the complete listing".
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/real_estate/1007/gallery.Dennis_Hopper_house_for_sale/index.html?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin