I’m building a round picnic table for a client.The table top would be made out of oak flooring. I was planning on finishing it with about 5 coats of spar varnish. I,m wondering if anyone has a better recommendation for a finish. The table would be left out in the weather in Northern Idaho and we get about 30 inches of rain a year.
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When you say oak flooring are you talking about? 3/4 tung and groove?
the flooring is 3/4 t&g x 3 1/2 and I plan on usinf my flooring hammer to nail into 3/4 signboard which is 7ply plus a protective outershell which is similiar to masonite. The table will be a 4 foot diameter round with a hole in center for a umbrella
With all that rain and the tg put tightly together I would bet its going to cup and end up looking bad with in a short period of time regaurdless of the finish, maybe someone here can offer actual experience but I doubt it will work well for a long period of time.
If your going to do it, I would at least seal all 4 sides, but I dont think 3/4 tg is stable enough for an outside setting
Edit: There was a thread here not to long ago about making a counter top out of cherry flooring I believe, I will try to look for it later for you and post it if I can find it. If I remember correctly the suggestion was to rip the tongue and groove off and fasten from underneath.
Edited 2/3/2003 2:38:53 PM ET by CAG
Thanks for the judgement call. My first reaction is to glue with gorilla glue and screw up from below into flooring.There is a shoe for the flooring hammer to keep nails within 3/4 inch. I didn't realize oak would react as such outdoors, it was the wood of choice because the client has some left over from his living room floor. Any more thoughts would be appreciated but at this point I,ll be seeing the client this evening and we will be talking about other tabletop woods
pileated
Im not a wood expert, but look at normal out door woods, Ipe Teak, red wood cedar, Ask your local lumber yard what the recommend
The species of wood isn't the real problem here, not that there is a problem...
Pileated
Simply forget it! Dont waste your time. It will never hold hold up the test of time in any part of the country especially yours.
Simply forget it...I wont go into any more detail because it wont hold up
Be well
Namatse
Andy
"Attachment is the strongest block to realization"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You're getting jumped a little but it's only because most consider oak the wrong thing for what you're doing. It doesn't hold in weather. White does a little better than red, but for what you're doing, cypress would be a much better material choice, and make the customer happy for a longer period of time. You wouldn't be content if someone sold you a car that fell apart after one summer. Look into availability of other woods. Might save some headache down the road.
" Clothes make the man. Naked people have litte or no influence in society" - Mark Twain
RW>>> "You're getting jumped a little but it's only because most consider oak the wrong thing for what you're doing."
Well that, and it is going to be nailed onto a solid base that won't drain or allow the oak to dry from below, and the flooring nails will stick out the bottom of the signboard.
Actually, with an umbrella in the center I think this will be fine.
Pileated,
With 30 inches of rain a year, you need to think boat building tactics.
As already stated, I'm not so sure that oak would be your choice of woods. Cypress from the heartwood (no sapwood) would be much better and true Honduras mahogany would be even better, if they have the billfold for it.
If you choose to continue with the t&g oak, be aware that it, like most woods, will move dramatically throughout the year and if fastened improperly to a piece of MDO, it'll cup to beat the band or split itself apart……..not to mention what's already been said about trapped water. (P.S. - red oak has zilch for rot resistance. If the finish is neglected, it's toast.)
My recommendation would be to use 5/4 or 6/4 solid stock (preferably cypress or mahogany……teak would be the best) with at least 2 cleats (say 6/4 x 2 1/2"or 3") running perpendicular to the tabletop grain. (4 would be better….two long ones and two shorter ones) When you size these cleats for width, bear in mind that you may be fastening along their sides with your leg structure. You might want to make them as large as you possibly can without causing leg clearance problems.
T&G on this table is a must IMO, but you must position the stock so that the shoulders aren't touching initially or there's nowhere for the wood to move when it swells from rainwater and subsequently shrinks when it dries out. For example, leave an 1/8" gap along the shoulders at each edge of a board, if you use 6" stock. I'd fasten these boards from the bottom, up through the cleats, two screws per board at each cleat, penetrating a minimum of an inch into the stock. Make certain that you oversize the shank holes thru the cleats so that the screws can tilt when the boards move from expansion and contraction.
Finish? That's a good one. I guess I'd be inclined to use a penetrating water repellent rather than a film type finish. It'll penetrate better into those t&g's than a film finish and is much easier to renew. You'll likely want/need to renew that water repellent every year for the very best results, but that's no big deal to do. Sikken's makes great products of this nature. Make certain that the end grain is well fed/saturated. Or……………if they insist on a film type finish, I'd recommend Sikken's TGL or a high quality marine varnish with UV inhibitor. This will be more of a nuisance to renew when it eventually fails, but I wouldn't suspect the need to renew it but once every five years or more………depending. Spar varnish would likely perform okay, but I'd pop for the Sikken's TGL.
Oh yeah………….if you use a film type finish, take some sandpaper and roll every sharp edge of every board prior to finishing as a sharp edge will act like a knife on the finish as it shrinks during drying and curing. This will leave that edge vulnerable to water penetration and once water makes its way underneath the finish, failure has begun.
May not have to say this, but I will just to be sure.........make certain that you seal the underside of the tabletop as well as the top of it.
Well, spar varnish is certainly a traditional outdoor sealer/finish; but, there are some newer marine varnishes, like Sikkens (sp ?) Marine, Epifanes, or Waterlox Marine; or, marine oils, like Pennofin Marine Oil, that will last even longer.
There are some specialized epoxy, urethane, two-part, etc. systems around (you could do a search), but they always sound so complicated, particularly for a small project.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario