Replies

1. 
   renosteinke | Jul 29, 2006 11:20pm | #1

   I have to ask: WHY? Unless the pump is over 1 hp., 110 v ought to work fine. I just don't like more volts around water.

   If it has a piggy-back plug, NO, you may not simply replace the plug. At least, not and continue wiring the same way.

   220 has two "hot" wires. Anything that shuts off that pump needs to open both "hot" wires. Sure, opening one will 'work,' but it violates code, creates a danger, and-if a fault happens in the right place- can create a situation where you are not able to shut it of at all!
   For these reasons, a 220 pump usually has a 'control panel,' which keeps the pump and control wiring separate.

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 29, 2006 11:22pm | #2

   "220 has two "hot" wires. Anything that shuts off that pump needs to open both "hot" wires. Sure, opening one will 'work,' but it violates code, creates a danger, and-if a fault happens in the right place- can create a situation where you are not able to shut it of at all!"Not really. For CONTROL you only need to disconnect one leg.However, for DISCONNECT you need to disconnect both legs.And the plug on the motor would do that.However, I agree with your basic ideas. Most likely it should have a control panel and a separate high alarm float.

2. 
   codehorse | Jul 29, 2006 11:51pm | #3

   Thanks for responding. The answer to "WHY?" is that my 110 v pump died and I was not able to fix it, so I bought a new one. Before a couple of years before it died, the 110 pump would sometimes just hum and fail to pump and I had to disconnect it (unplug it or flip the breaker) and let it rest for a couple of hours before it would start. I always wondered whether I should have put in a 230v pump, so after it failed I jumped at the chance to buy a used 230 v pump. Thanks for explaining about the two hot wires and that the switch should do both. I won't try to change the piggyback plug. But do I need a control panel or just a 220 v double float piggyback switch to replace the 110 one? If I use a control panel, can I still use the 110 double float switch? Is there a control panel that you could recommend?Thanks,
   TIm

1. 
   DanH | Jul 30, 2006 02:18am | #4

   What's the voltage rating on the float switch?
   If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison

1. 
   codehorse | Jul 30, 2006 05:50am | #5

   I assume the switch is rated for 110v. I bought the double float switch for my 110v (now dead) 0.5 HP FE Myers ME50 pump. The float has a regular 110 3 prong male and female piggyback plug. Nice thick cable. My new (used) pump is a Barnes Vortex 2SEV522L 230v.

1. 
   DanH | Jul 30, 2006 06:14am | #6

   The switch has a rating molded into the side of it. Read it.
   If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison

2. 
   codehorse | Jul 30, 2006 06:48am | #7

   Sorry, I left the switch at my other house a couple hours away from here. Next time I'm there, I'll check.

2. 
   renosteinke | Jul 30, 2006 11:13pm | #8

   This is a good thread.... it brings up lots of things to consider. First, I'd like to talk a bit about the old pump. You ay it would sometimes just hum, shut off, and need several hours before it would re-start. Well, and I know this may break Tim Taylor's heart, but "MORE POWER!!!" isn't always the solution. Many smaller 110 motors have a temperature overload switch built it... the motor gets hot, it won't re-start until it cools down. It sounds like this was happening.
   Now, why would that happen? The most likely reason is that a bit of string got into the pump, and was interfering with the rotation of the impeller (the part that moves the water). A less likely reason might be a pump trying to pump higher up than it is designed to pump. Every pump has a "performance curve." That is, a chart that says 'this pump will pump "X" gallons per minute up "Y" feet high.' You try to find a pump that matches your needs. For example, if you were simply pumping a basement shower drain up to the sanitary sewer, you might look for a pump that would pump 5 gpm up maybe a 6 ft. "head." To achieve that performance, there are two main things that influence the performance of the pump: the motor, and the impeller design.
   The motor... well, a bigger motor is capable of moving more water, but not necessarily pumping it any higher. A motor that spins faster will pump higher ("RPM" on the nameplate). Changing the voltage of the motor will not often solve a problem- you need to look at that performance curve again. The impeller can be designed in many different ways. Some designs can handle air bubbles; other cannot. More relevant to your problem is to ask : can this pump handle anything besides clean water?"
   For example, a toilet does not flush clean water; there is stuff in it. Most pumps choke on this stuff. "Sewage" pumps have impellers that, while maybe not the most efficient at moving water, can handle a fair amount of crud. I suggest you open up the pump part of your sump pump, and see if there is string wrapped around the shaft. If so, you've found the cause of the troubles- and need to keep such stuff out of the pump. Now... for the floats... As far as I know, there are no 4-wire pump floats made. At least, not ones with 'piggyback' plugs. Myers makes a rather nice little panel, that uses standard floats like the one you have. Check plumbing suppliers near you- this is not an unusual item at all. A panel made for two pumps will work just fine with only one pump. You will probably need to use three floats. To risk repeating myself, I suspect that you already had the correct pump- you just had some stuff get stuck inside.

1. 
   codehorse | Jul 31, 2006 12:50am | #9

   Thanks for the follow up. I purchased the 110 V FEMyers ME50 about 5 years ago. It's curve was above the 28 GPM at 28 ft of head specified by the engineer who designed the septic system, but as I mentioned, within a year or two it started having intermittent problems (not starting until it rested). When it failed entirely, I called the store that I bought it from. They would not service it but suggested, like you did, that there was something caught in it. So I took it apart but was unable to find anything stuck in it. I even tried to order a new capacitor (not because I knew anything about it but only because there were instructions in the manual prominently featured for replacing it so I thought it must be something that could go bad). However, the nearest Meyers supply house never called me back with a price on the capacitor, and before I had gotten around to following up I came accross a used cheap Barnes Vortex sewage pump with a good curve and 230V so I just bought it. So now I have to hook up the 230V pump or keep trying to fix the Myers one. I've got 3 floats: one for the alarm and two on the double float piggyback switch for the 110V pump. There are two 12-2 with ground wires out to the pole beside the pump tank. One is carrying low voltage from the alarm float in to the alarm box inside, and the other goes straight to the main breaker box. I think I can just switch the 110 breaker to 230, and change out the water proof outlet by the pump tank to a 230V recepticle. I like the idea of the piggyback switch because it is so simple to work with. They make double float 230 V switches too. Do these have relays in them which lets them switch both legs? Otherwise would they be inherently unsafe (or am I misunderstanding some these posts)? If I buy the control box can I use the 110 V double float switch? If I buy a new 230V double float switch do I also need a control box? Why? I will buy either or both if that is the correct thing to do, but I'd like to understand why.Thanks again,
   Tim

1. 
   renosteinke | Jul 31, 2006 09:49pm | #10

   If you buy the control box, the floats will use power from the control circuit. This circuit, which is 'created' in the control box, is usually 120v, but might be as low as 12v; it all depends on the design of the specific control panel. In any case, you would be able to use the existing float switches.
   Indeed, the control box will likely also have an alarm mounted on it, and use the third float as well. Other pumps are switched by a float that rides up and down a shaft, flipping switches as it goes; these switches are mounted above the pit, and do have two sets of contacts, for opening both "legs."

2. 
   codehorse | Aug 08, 2006 04:53am | #11

   This is a followup/resolution post to a question I posted a while back.I bought a 230 V double float pump switch with a piggyback plug, replaced the 110 V outlet at the pump with a 230 V one, and changed the breaker to a 2 pole one. The alarm float stayed the same. The new 230V Barnes pump seems to be working fine. No control box -- it seemed unnecessarily complicated and I did not understand an advantage to having one -- I like the simplicity of the piggyback plug.Thanks for everyone's advice.

3. 
   Abm | Aug 08, 2006 07:40am | #12

   I would recommend replacing the pump with a good quality model from a plumbing supply... not some box store or other discount. I personally prefer the Liberty pumps and have installed dozens of them with no problems at all. They aren't cheap, like $260.00 wholesale, but will last for years in constant use. I think that they have a 5 year warranty if I remember correctly. The ones that I have installed are all 120 volt models and were refuge style pumps... you never know what will find it's way into the crock over time.

4. 
   renosteinke | Aug 08, 2006 04:33pm | #13

   Good show! I was not aware of this sort of switch... but it seems to do everything a control panel would have done.