Pixs of the strange windows -use adobe
why are these windows done like this in these $400k-$500k new homes?
why are these windows done like this in these $400k-$500k new homes?
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Replies
trying to add the pix
It looks like this might be some kind of kit or premanufactored homes with Knockouts any place that you might want a window. Pick the places and few hits with a hamer and knock out the plug and put in a window.Want to put a bed on that wall don't know out the plug.BTW, is that on a crawlspace. Notice the larger number of vents in the foundation.What is is located? I wonder how much moist air it is letting in?
these are spec or custom homes in Charleston sc.crawl spaces are very very common.
Well the crawlspace is OK, it the vents.If they don't put AC in the house they may be OK, otherwise perfect place for mold, mildew and rot.
95% of the homes here are like that
http://www.buildingscience.com/topten/south.htm"Crawl spaces are real simple to understand and deal with. When you vent crawl spaces you bring in hot, humid air and cause moisture and mold problems. The ground surface is typically colder than the dew point temperature of the exterior air. The underside of crawl space floor insulation is radiation coupled to the ground surface and is very close to the same temperature of the ground. Moisture droplets can be seen all over the top surface of typical polyethylene ground covers as well as hanging from the bottom surface of the crawl space floor insulation. Gee, I wonder how all the water got through the poly ground cover? It must have leaked through the walls. Give me another break. Now, when the moisture is in the insulation where do you think it wants to go? Where is the air conditioning? Moisture moves to the cold surface. Venting crawl spaces made sense only when you had no air conditioning and no insulation and no crawl space walls."
don't get mad at me.
the bulding science thoughts are accepted by very few here for whatever reason/
As I speculated in the other thread, those are blind windows. A fairly common traditional device for maintaining balance or symmetry or balance on a facade. Particularly common in the Italianate style the builders are replicating here.Want to have a symmetrical facade where a window would be blocked by an interior staircase or wall? Just build a decorative fake window to fool the eye.If a house had shutters, a blind window might be disguised with permanently closed shutters.In my estimation, the builders here have gone way, waaaaay overboard with the fake windows, and actually with the relentless repetition of identical windows, too. They could have achieved much better results with some balanced assymetry.
Not the best pic, but one I had at hand. That's a blind window on the side of the tower, if you can even make it out. There's a winding staircase inside that blocks that whole wall.
I think Tuffy has put his finger on it. Although, again agreeing with Tuffy, the false windows were definitely overused in the original poster's picture.
Actually it may be a good thing in that I think we may be seeing a evolution in architectural style where people with some taste in housing are building/buying homes that attempt to replicate some specific historic style rather than the millions of sub division homes consisting largely of vinyl boxes with strips of brick on the fronts, and 3 or 4 false gables slapped on to add "interest".
In addition to Tuffy's example of the tower with blind windows where a staircase is, I'd say that historic homes typically had a fairly large number of windows which were necessary for ventilation and lighting in homes that predated the entire concept of modern HVAC systems and were sparsely lighted at best. The fact is that in modern homes windows are rarely opened, and interior wall space is more often utilized for the placement of furniture such as beds with headboards, dressers, entertainment centers, office furniture, etc, etc. Modern building/energy codes limit the percentage of fenestration unless it is balanced out with sometimes costly energy enhancements so at the very least adding (real) windows result in a realized cost of more than that of the windows themselves. Also, I think we all have a "light bill" that is less than something to be proud of as we have grown quite dependent on artificial light.Personally, I'd like to see a pic from the original poster of what the subject house looks like from, say, 50 yards - just to get an overall idea of what the overall look of the home is.
Edited 8/6/2005 8:53 am ET by J_Carver
i'm having surgery next week and have been posting lots of questions at a website for women dealing with the same health issues, not that i intend to perform the surgery myself or medicate myself, but it does help me know the right questions to ask my doctor and it also gives me insight into what post op behaviour will aid my recovery.
BT is much like that- as noted in "professionals take notice" thread, it is not always easy finding good pros or having them show up when you do find them. and when i try to get an estimate from 3 pros, i usually get 3 different opiions about what should be done. when it's an area i don't know about, i like to compare what they say to the opinions i get here at breaktime. it helps me make an informed descision, whether i DIY or hire.
i do get your point, and it's a good point. but i have only gotten great advice here.
Wain
I've seen some nice homes with that same detail here in Austin TX. The only diff was that the house was stucco.
I thought is was some design feature that I was just to dumb to understand.
Doug
why are these windows done like this in these $400k-$500k new homes
Well, one guess is that most othe new homes run $4-500K. Further, that you can get just about anything at those prices, whether sensible or not. Median prices are pretty high, IIRC.
Now, I'd like to think that some one might have actually wanted to give a 'historical' feel to new construction, adding a detail that mimics a previous remodel. I'd like to think that.
Could be that the plan shop the builder uses (internal or external) has an 'elevations' department that does not play well with the 'plans' department, as well.
What would be really telling, in my book, would be if those really are "boarded" up framed-for-windows wall, or just, as I fear, an excuse in frilly trim work.
As odd as it seems, I was just looking at a book on victorians of S.F. and they had a few pictures of framed windows w/o windows much similar to what you have there, but trimmed out much nicer.
The author gave a reason that it was done, but I can't recall why.
It was done in the design at initial construction.
Maybe that is what they are trying to replicate?
Doesn't look too good though.
Mike
Trust in God, but row awayfrom the rocks
The though that comes to me is that they are done for 'visual balance'. Imagine plain walls where the dummy windows are - how boring and un-imaginative. Thumbs up to the archy/designer for trying to create interesting facades.
As a footnote: Many houses from the 17th and 18th century Britain have windows blocked out - there was at that time a "Window Tax". Beats me - this must be one of the strangest government schemes there could be to take your money off you...
ciao for niao
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
wow bill- thanks for the insight!
my house is ca 1935, vented crawlspace, no closets. i was told upon buying the house that those vents were very important and should be kept open as much as possible, though i could close them off during the coldest winter weather to keep the house a little warmer.but what you said makes so much sense- so should i get covers (removable) for the vents? thaks again!!
You might want to look some more of the articles at Buildingscience.com and see more of them details.You do need a vapor barrier on the floor of the crawlspace, because even "dry earth" can release a lot of moisture.And you might want to insulate the insdie of the foudation walls.Also you need some amount of air circulation between the crawlspace and the house, but in a house of your age I suspect that is not a problem.But one of the things to look at retro fitting an existing structure is to ask "how well is it doing now". Is the crawlspace nice and dry or is funky.
"how well is it doing now". Is the crawlspace nice and dry or is funky.
And that's the real test. Given the location, and the age of the structure, a person could make an argument for foaming the floor to some depth, and leaveing the c/s well enough alone.
But, any needed changes in electrical, plumbing, hvac (or under bathrrom floor framing <g>) have to be finished/done/good 'nuf first, or it's a bit of a mess.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I believe you can find vents that open & close on their own depending on the humidity in your crawl space. I'll take a look & see if any turn up.
thanks bill and johnny-
bad typo in my first post (nsomnia up in the wee hours of the morning)- not "no" closets, i meant "mildewy" closets, which i am thinking has something to do with the venting thing.is it advisable to put someting on the ground in the carwlspace, before laying down the moisture barrier, that would be an anti-bacerial- anti mildew agent?
i'll look further at that website bill- it did help a few months back when i was figuring out my new closet construction problems, (the one with the brick veneer)i have added insulaton wherever i have done new work (the new closet and both bathroom renovations done in '97), but the rest of the house is just open space between ext brick veneer and int plaster and lathe. i definitely do not want to rip out all the other plaster and lathe and insulate--
"is it advisable to put someting on the ground in the carwlspace, before laying down the moisture barrier, that would be an anti-bacerial- anti mildew agent?"No. You want to tape all of the seam and to the wall. Then whatever is on the other side of the plastic is "outside" and sealed away.
Putting fungicide on the ground would likely just soak down into the soil & not really do anything for your house.
I'd put down the vapor barrier & then spray any joists or subflooring that look like they have mold or fungus on them (something like Boracare). Definitely wear a respirator if you are going to do this.
johnny and bill- thanks!
MSM:<!----><!---->
My recommendation, in general would be to seek advice from building professionals, not guys who spend more time playing with computers than actually building stuff 8 hours a day.<!---->
This BT site is populated by some very proficient builders/remodelers/craftsman and less experienced but knowledgeable DIY types, but is also infected by a number of folks who present themselves as authoritative recourses but in fact their knowledge is by in large limited to what they have read.Likewise, Building Science is a good resource of information but not the resource. As the name insinuates, these are building scientists who are seeking better ways to build. Not the actual guys who have built and remodeled 100s or 1,000s of houses and know what works through the (under-rated?) experience method. Further, if you look closely at the BS site you will find that the contents is largely created by one guy. Also notice that the web site is a commercial site that is selling merchandise.<!---->
Give me a break! Those things look jake. If I'm going to spend half a mill. on a house give me the balance with a real window. Thats peanuts to the overall cost. That thing looks like a boarded up window that you see in an abandoned structure. Just because some archy came up with this idea for what ever reason doesn't make it good design.
Imagine yourself on the inside - there are closets, interior walls and necessary wall space (paintings, furniture,etc,) that conflict with the actual placement of windows....S-o-o-o, windows can't be put there. Instead, "jake" windows are - and a) people notice, and b) others get het up about it. Well, at least the archy's done something other than turn out crappy stucco-ed, multi-roofed, maxi-arched McHouses. in other words...AT LEAST YOU B***** NOTICED.
IMNSHO, ha.ciao for niao
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
I don't know why you are yelling at me. JMO You are absolutely right about the interior design needs dictating things such as this. I just happen to disagree with this approach, in fact it may not be the concept as much as the execution in this particular case. The clapboards being used where the sash would be looks like a lazy design solution. I'm all for creativity I just don't think this makes the cut as such.
What you and my DW call yelling, I call forceful...sorry it came over too strong. Now we're getting to the crux - "may not be the concept as much as the execution in this particular case. " - I agree!ciao for niao
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
That's just pain odd....maybe you should append this thread to my "architects have been here one"
I get the feeling we are all so used to seeing s##t built that nothing surprises us anymore!