Does anyone use “expediters†to get there plans approved faster? Where do you find these people and what do they typically cost?
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2nd I just want to confirm if it is true that if the home owner applies for the building permit he becomes the general contractor for his own job. If this is true, and my clients do not wish to be the general, can my client submit his plans pay the fees then have his contractor sign for the plans when they are approved and a building permit is issued leaving the general as the general?
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I would like to find a way to speed up the process from design to permit. Currently the process seems to go like this, Client hires me for design and construction documents average time 2 months>goes to the structural engineer, take them about 3 weeks to review and send client contract, then they say 6 to 8 weeks for completion, last job I sent them 4 months>then when I get the engineering calculations back I incorporate them into the plans, takes about 1 ½ days, then back to the engineer for stamp and sign. Then the client seeks and selects a contractor, hard to get any to call back and the ones that are busy come in at over $400 a sq. ft. (middle of the road finish). It can take up to 3 months to find a contractor> then apply for building permits 3 months> building dept kicks back plans for revisions 1 week> building permit issued>work starts depending on size of project around 4-6 months to complete (typical addition for me is around 1200-1400 sq. ft.) All told about 1 year before construction starts. BTW most contractors won’t and for good reason bid the job until the construction docs are complete including engineering.
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There must be a better way. Any ideas? How do you folks out there do it? This is in <!—-><!—-><!—->San Francisco<!—-><!—-> bay area (east bay). Interest rates have gone up, new housing has slowed, people moving to larger homes has slowed, values have dropped, the remodeling industry in my world is booming. I suspect people are still investing in real estate by improving there current home rather than moving. End result engineers and building departments are back logged by months.
Thanks in advance for your opinion
Mike Roeder
Vintage Home Design
Danville, CA 925-575-0629
Replies
Here in SA there is a guy who makes his living as an expediter. Turns out he retired from the permit office a couple of years ago. I contacted him about a 4,000 sf condo (interiors only). He said, withoiut looking at the plans, just a rough estimate, it would cost a minimum of $1500 and would probably go up. Well, at least he didn't try to low ball it.
I talked with one of the plan examiners, withiout revealing who I was asking about. He said that an expeditier would make sense for an out of town client, or someone who did not have time to deal with the permit office. But for a normal contractor, it probably wasn't worth the cost.
When the permit application is filled in here, there is a space for the owner and one for the contractor. So I'm guessing that the HO could make the application, and add a GC name later.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'd look at it from this perspective- how many hours of your time (visiting the building department, filling out forms, submitting corrections, etc), will that $1,500 save you? At your rate, does it make more sense to spend those hours on those activities, or are you better served spending that time designing, pricing jobs, and/or swinging a hammer?
Bob
My brother has had a couple of permits for major work on his place in NYC and he has used an expeditor both times. IIRC it cost him about a thousand each time. Apparently that's the only way to do it without going insane.
I have seen expeditors at the permit counter in Oakland, CA. Every time the permit tech asks for something, they reach in their briefcase and pull it out.
Personally, I've pulled permits in maybe 10 jurisdictions. Each has its own quirks, and it takes a lot of reading of the free handouts to try to figure out how to approach them for the most efficient service. I've pulled several where I live now, and they always seem to come up with a new thing I need to do, that wasn't required last time. There are one or two expeditors here that people hire when they're doing a waterfront house and want to exceed all the requirements for grading, lot clearing, lot coverage, building height, shoreline encroachment, and do on. One of them is a former permit tech, and I guess he knows how to get thru all those hearings.
I have seen expeditors at the permit counter in Oakland, CA. Every time the permit tech asks for something, they reach in their briefcase and pull it out.
I try to get to the permit desk right when they open so there does not tend to be a lot of folks around then but I don't think that I have ever seen an expeditor in Oakand. How you could tell they were an expeditor and not just a well organized contractor?
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Doesn't sound like a permit expeditor is going to solve your "problem" unless he's able to grease whoever needs to be unstuck in the building department to shorten the 3-month approval timeframe. Given how busy the building department probably is, shortening that timeframe probably isn't likely.
You could potentially submit for permits in the owner's name as an "owner/builder" and then go in for a change of contractor later (to get the permit process going while you're out for bid), but a lot of building departments frown on that since it's mre work/record-keeping for them. Additionally, if the bidding results in changes to the documents/VE to cut costs, you now have a project being built that's not in accordance with the submitted/approved plans- that's a no-no.
Sounds like 1 year is the timeframe the clients are gonna have to live with- unless you can draw faster ;)
Bob
I would say that if you want to speed up the process, ask your engineer to work quicker. The time frame you just described seems way to long to me to get structurals back from an engineer. Is there anything super complicated about your designs that I am unaware of.
Edit: Three weeks just to get them a contract?!
"I'm your huckleberry"
Edited 1/31/2006 9:42 am ET by xosder11
The one I mentioned was complicated. 2 other factors here in CA there is so much construction going on everyone in the industry is back logged by months. Good contractors have work lined up, a year ahead. There are not enough designers, engineers and plan checkers to handle the work load. I was hoping there was a better way that others are going about this. Back to the engineer, typicaly he only takes about 8 weeks for completion not 6 months. As stated this was a complicated upper addition tons of point loads beams open 2 story cielings. Had to be very creative with structure for the upper floor.
Thanks for all of your guys advice
Mike
Hmmm, I think I am in the wrong place right now. I'm watching freezing rain out my window as I type. Maybe working in a booming sector of the industry in sunny weather ain't half bad eh?"I'm your huckleberry"
A client just told me she's using an expeditor. Concerned about time to pull a permit, but doesn't know the ropes. Her intended contractor is too busy to start the paperwork chase, and she's worried that waiting for that will just delay everything. Don't know where she found the guy though. Clark County NV (Bob Kovacs, this is the same one I asked about in the other thread...) Don't yet know cost or success...just heard about it.
There must be a better way. Any ideas? How do you folks out there do it? This is in San Francisco bay area (east bay). Interest rates have gone up, new housing has slowed, people moving to larger homes has slowed, values have dropped, the remodeling industry in my world is booming. I suspect people are still investing in real estate by improving there current home rather than moving. End result engineers and building departments are back logged by months.
How in the world did I manage to do this indent? Do you do all your work in the Danville area? I know that in SF you have to use an expeditor to have any hope of getting a permit approved in any reasonable amount of time. It seems to be so ingrained there, it makes it easy for the folks that work there because they don't have to deal with anyone who is less than perfectly organized. It seems like the folks at the building Dept in the smaller cities are more reasonable than in the larger cities but maybe that is just my imagination.
This class might be below your level but I found it very helpful and its only a single night after work.
http://www.bldgeductr.org/shortclasses.html
#65 How to Get Your Permit Approved
The guy that teaches the class is a full time very expensive expeditor who I would not want to have as a neighbor.
Hope this helped a bit.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Cool site Dan,
I think I will look into some of those classes as well ask the instructor about expediting plans.
Thanks Mike
Mike,
I know it's easier in Pleasant Hill than Danville :-) but I went ahead ahead pulled the permits while we were in the process of interviewing GC's. Sure made it go smoother - we were permitted and ready to go by the time we had the GC selected - he liked that as well - no uncertainty about when he could start. Of course it only took 2 weeks for plan check and approval; the engineer on the other hand - argh!!
Wayne
A long time ago, there was cute Female Expediters who took out swimming pool permits in the Los Angeles Area. Certain plancheckers would serve them happily.