Hey folks,
I have a great head scratcher here for all of you plumbing specialists, and any other sharp minds looking for a puzzling dilemna.Two years ago I built a 2500 sq. ft. single story home for my wife and I, here in Montana.We built this 2.5 bath/3 bedroom home over a crawl space, and have well water( 35 g.pm. from appr. 140 ft.).Now my “situation” has stumped every one I’ve talked to, including the resident plumbing inspector(which might not say a whole lot(?!).Our master bathroom sink has a regular tendency to emit a sulfur smell when it is first used in the a.m., and as well right before bed-time.We never use the sink in between.This smell rather overwhelms your head region if stooped over, but quickly dissipates if the water is left running.Should we use the sink an hour later there is no problem.It seems to manifest itself only after prolonged inactivity.As well, the odor persisits with cold water valve,not the hot water valve.NOW, the catch here is that none of the other faucets in the house expel this odor at any time.Other bits of information: this bathroom is the farthest faucet from the pressure tank and the line has a hot water circulation pump.Things I have ruled out: At first I thought it was improper venting and sewer gas was the offensive odor, but the inspector adamantly cried sulfur and asserted the venting was more than adequate.I actually put a second trap on this vanity line down in the crawl just to be sure.One might suspect that infrequent usage allows the tainting to occur, but since there is only two of us in the house our guest bathroom is used even more infrequently,yet doesn’t emit the odor.My question than would be if the well water has sulfur why does it only rear its offensive head in ONE bathroom.I, of course, think it is a plot by my ex-plumber after a little run-in we had over some botched workmanship,but my wife has assured me that is just my fanciful paranoia leaking(pardon the pun) out.So any ideas from some pros out there would be appreciated.Thanks and good luck solving what appears to me as a real mystery.
Replies
Are all fixtures on the same floor?
Well it could still be your plumber.
I don't know the layout, but often there is a vertical vent pipe in the bathroom area. And it could have a pin hole in it or a joint that wan't glued.
Also people have had problems with "gunging" growing in the overflow on basins that give of bad smells.
Try smelling right in that area.
However, there is a common problem with well water that will have a sulfer reducing bacteria. It is harmless, but causes orders.
My guess is that the the gemonetry of the piping that allows the gas to accumulate in that one spot.
What kind of supply piping was used? Copper, CPVC, PEX?
Two things come to mind:
First, ya might try replacing the aerator on the offending faucet. It is possible the aerator may have bacteria in it producing the odor, perhaps even so small you can't readily tell. It's a cheap test, cost ya about a buck or two.
Second, I recently bought a home with CPVC supplies on a well system. There was an occasional sufur odor in the kitchen faucet, no others emmited the odor. My water was tested and showed no bacteria but there was iron. Against my better judgement I proceeded with having a water filter installed to oxidize and filter out the iron. Glad I did, not only is my water sparkling clean and no longer staining the fixtures, but no odor as well. Water guy said I may have had small amounts of bacteria in the cpvc that the iron was "feeding" and now the iron is gone there is no more "feeding" of the potential bacteria.
If the faucet aerator is clean, another variable might be the circulation pump.
Perhaps the pump impeller is iron rather than bronze. In hot water over two years, it might have rapidly corroded from interaction with low-level sulphur in the well water. Could this leave sulphated iron in the pipe....therefore the smell you get from time to time?
Suggest you isolate the pump, disconnect power to it, then open it up to check the impeller's condition.
Just grabbing at straws here.
I'll be interested to see the responses. I've got the identical problem with my laundry sink - sulphur smell at that faucet, but not in the kitchen, the baths, or (as far as I've noticed), even at the washing machine 18" away from the laundry sink... For me, it's more of a curiosity than an actual problem.
Dave
Justa few guesses here
To determine if it's a ventingdrain problem take a bucket of water from a non offending location and pour it into the offending sink at about the rate as the offending faucet, do this as you would normally use the sink , early in the morning or late at night. If it stinks its a vent/drain problem if it does'nt stink I think it's a supply problem.
If there is a source in the supply line that's producing a "sulfur" smelling gas perhaps the pipes are plummed so that bathroom is the high point where all of the gas collects since it is "the farthest faucet from the pressure tank" .
Mike
It's O.k. to think out of the box, Just don't walk off of the plank!
Hello again,
I really appreciate the response to my issue.Some very plausible suggestions.To answer any questions, the house is a single story, with pex supply lines.I think I have isolated this as a supply problem and not waste removal.At least I am mostly sure of this.By putting a second trap on this isolated vanity I think I was able to restrict gas from the crawl space end, but still I have musings about pressure from the line above(i.e. the roof down) somehow building up gas around the trap in the cabinent which becomes displaced and SOMEHOW allowed to reenter the sink despite the trap.( when water is draining and entering the trap).I did put an even deeper trap underneath the sink than which the plumber installed.However it seems to me that naturally if it was a gas problem associated with the waste lines I would smell it on a more regular basis, especially through the overflow.This sink IS the farthest from the pressure tank, but as well we have a claw foot tub and a walk-in shower in this room with no gas smells releasing.So back to the supply line angle.I will try replacing the aerorater, though the amount of stench released just seems to exceed in my mind that which could be produced by such a small part of the fixture.Now hypothetically, lets say there is bacteria in the supply line, maybe even associated with the cirque pump as one fellow suggested, the fact that this individual water line is approxiamatly 60 ft. long and has a junction to the guest bathroom wouldn't contaminated water appear in both bathrooms AND for a longer time due to the length of the line in general.I might add that we don't seem to get the odor from the hot water, which would eliminate the cirque/hot water line, I think.This I know because my wife has this thing about brushing her teeth with warm water!?So if the line is contaminated WHY does it only manifest itself at one sink.(maybe this IS a sink probelem: overflow/aerorater).I do know that we have water stains in our toilets, so this all might come back to water quality.Anyhow, I better get to work I understand.Thanks again. NMC
Do you have a 'dead leg' branch on that line?
If you have an outlet that is rarely used branching off that line, bacteria may be growing in the stagnant water. It may take periods of inactivity for this to spread to the active line.
One of the disadvatanges of PEX is that it will support a 'bio-film' under conditions where copper would not.
Here's an idea -- maybe your overflow is fouled in that particular sink. Sometimes bacteria and muck and grow and maybe when the water is first turned on, the smell wafts out. Just for the heck of it, why don't you try pouring some bleach down the overflow and see what happens?
Does anyone know if the bacteria themselves stink or does the bacteria produce stinky stuff? liquid? soild? gaseous?
Mike
It's O.k. to think out of the box, Just don't walk off of the plank!
If the bacteria are anaerobic, they will produce hydrogen sulfide gas or rotten egg odor. If that is the odor the OP is smelling, then bacteria are most likely the culprit. Maybe in a dead leg riser that prevents hammer?
We had the same thing in a house Upstate. We had well water and the faucet at the end of each run had the same problem. It is coming from your well and is mostly generated with the first use after the system has backwashed/ water conditioner self-clean feature. During that time the water feed to the house is shut off at the conditioner and the conditioning tank is backwashed/ emptied. A gas bubble develops during the back wash and if your well has a sulfer content that is what the gas bubble will smell like. When the system is recharged, the gas buble is sent into the system and usually ends up at the end of the run fixture.BTW - the backwashing is set on a timer and usually occurs at 2am when it is unlikely that anyone will be using the water. Don't get caught in the shower! Take a look at the timer/ dial, it's on top of the conditioner tank.You don't get it in the hot side because the hot water if fed from a tank which doesn't get the air/ gas bubble. The bubble follows the flow to daylght.FrankieThe first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. Third rule of Fight Club, someone yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I don't know if I should ask or not but. No I won't ask. Yes I will ask. How in the world did you determine that the backwash cycle creates this bubble of sulfur gas and that it usually goes to the end of the plumbing run?
In my case I have one of those 2am systems you referenced. Except in my case, it eliminated the sulfur smell at the end of teh run which was the kitchen sink in my case. Your explanation implies you know a lot about this to have figured out what the problem was?
The system we had did not eliminate the odors or taste for that matter. All it did was condition the water, hard to soft. I noticed the odor was strongest in the morning and was preceded by a blast of air/ gas. Sometimes if an end or the run faucet wasn't used for 4-6 hours, the initial pour would smell too. I posed a similar question here last year and with the help of the fine foplks at BT, a bit of investigation, monitoring the backwash cycles and a few experiments/ trials, it became clear.Ain't this site great?!FrankieThe first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. Third rule of Fight Club, someone yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.
What goes around goes around.
Next time someone asks, we can shout them down and direct them to the Search function. ;)
Okay, This is getting a little busy for this carpenter, chemistry was not my strong point.So as I understand it, a bubble of sulfur(presumably from the well) is transmitted nightly through the supply system.How does it find light ,or end up at the end of the line, without getting side tracked somewhere else in the system.This is the part that I really don't get, why it comes at this one sink only.I like the idea of trying to bleach the overflow, but it really sounds to me like the whole system needs to be shocked.Is this possible?Or will the problem return because we may assume the well water has a sulfur content.Can a water purifyer system(Culligan?) eliminate this probelm?You know if this was occuring in my laundry I could care less, but in the master bedroom.....my conscience would balk at marketing this house with this problem.I remember my grandparents house in Dutchess County, N.Y. having terrible sulfur water, it was a fact of life back then, but randem incidents of sulfur,such as our case, seem to have a more dramatic impact because your not quite expecting it every time.
A filter system should help/ get rid of the odor - as long as you select the proper one. I don't think shocking the system would do any good. There is sulfer in the welll. It wins.FrankieThe first rule of Fight Club is - you do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is - you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. Third rule of Fight Club, someone yells Stop!, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. Fourth rule, only two guys to a fight. Fifth rule, one fight at a time, fellas. Sixth rule, no shirt, no shoes. Seventh rule, fights will go on as long as they have to. And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Some hold to the theory that failure to use the Return Key in one's posts can cause intermittent sulphureous emissions. ;)
Since I am new to this site, I guess I don't follow you.Inadvertant actions shouldn't result in sulfurous emissions,resonating of smack,from other supply lines.
You've posted an interesting problem, and I'm learning a lot from the various solution options presented here.
The suggestion was to use paragraphs. The Enter Key breaks up large masses of text into smaller, more easily read sections. This makes it easier for folk to help you.
A large number of my clients own seasonal residences where water systems are shut down for weeks or even months at a time. A rotten-egg smell upon re-start--and sometimes for quite a while afterwards--is not unusual, and it is worst in houses plumbed with pex tubing. I have two clients whose cottages are next to each other, no more than 100 metres apart. Their wells are on the same aquifer. One is piped with copper; the other with pex. The copper-plumbed house does not have this problem. The pex-equipped place needs almost a full day of water use before the smell goes away.
Still, the root cause is high sulphur content in the well water. This is not uncommon at all, especially in mountainous areas.
The fact you only have a noticeable problem only in this one sink is most likely due to the fact it is only used twice a day. However, that alone indicates your well water has a very high sulfur content. Usually it takes a period of days of inactivity for a noticeable smell to develop when the water is turned back on.
The simplest solution is to install a main-line filter equipped with sulphur-specific cartridges.Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Try to break down your thoughts into segments. It's hard to read a sentence that's hundreds of words long. I may have an answer for you, but I can't navigate your quest. LOL
"I do know that we have water stains in our
toilets, so this all might come back to water quality."This is significant. What kinds of stains? Iron stains? Any growth of an algae like material in those toilet tanks?Have you had this water tested for iron content?Or are these stains blackish?Have you had the water tested at all?Sulfur odors on the cold water only are always indicative of hydrogen sulfide gas in the cold water supply from the well. The cure most often used is to chlorinate the well and then charcoal filter out the resulting sulfur particulants. The test for HS gas in the supply must be taken right at the wellhead. Bottling a sample and sending it off or taking it somewhere won't cut it. However, if there's enough of it in the supply, your nose will tell you right there at the well head. But your nose won't tell you how much and that needs to be known in order to determine exactly what you need for equipment. If HS is present in the well supply and you don't want to use chlorine and don't have to because of other bacterial problems, then it is possible to set up an aerator on the supply instead. I'd get a through water test before jumping to conclusions that HS gas is the only problem you have.
Sulfur odors that are predominant in the hot water are usually the result of hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria.......like iron bacteria. ......but some odor will also be detectable on the cold side as well. Again, the best-est cure is to chlorinate the well....because they reside there. But again...............I'd get a thorough water test before jumping to conclusions that HS gas is the only problem you have.(These guys are asking you to break your posts into paragraphs......by smacking the enter key once in a while.)Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Hello
Ive got another idea.
how about adding a water filter on to the sink?
If its the water a charcoal filter should get rid of the sulfur smell.
If the water isn't the culprit then perhaps its the overflow in side the sink.
perhaps the stuff smell is from a build up inside the sink? Not the drain or water?
Good luck .
C.A.G.
I had a similar problem in my last house (well/copper pipe/pressure tank/water softener). I believe it was caused by some sort of bacteria. The house had a whole house water filter and I was able to kill off the bacteria by taking out the filter and putting some bleach in the empty filter housing and then turning on the offending faucet until I could smell the bleach.
I let it set for a couple of hours then ran the faucet to clear all of the bleach, replaced the filter and the smell was gone.
Maybe you can figure out a way to get a bleach solution into your system to kill whatever is making the stink.
Rich Knab
People of mediocre ability sometimes achieve outstanding success because they don't know when to quit.
I had the same problem. I was told mine was coming from a reaction from disimilar metals in the drain? Plated brass (was discoloring), copper and chrome? Go figure! I replaced the drain and it's components and the problem was resolved.
Just my .02$
MK
Iron bacteria. Could be in the well, the pressure tank, or the water heater.
Is the well cap vented?
Ron