I’m doing a remodel of my bathroom and am debating what the walls of the tub/shower will be. I hate installing tile, I’m cheap (the tile I would want is $600), and I want to try something different. I am thinking of using 5/8″ Baltic Birch plywood, back painted with a Kilz type stainblocker and face coated with several coats of a marine grade clearcoat. It would be attached to the substrate with a construction adhesive (or silicone? or something else?? chewing gum?!?), and caulked at the corners.
Now, before you get all worked up, here are my defenses – 1. It would be seamless (except at the two inside corners, of course) because BB comes in 5′ by 5′ sheets. 2. It is inherently water resistant (I have an uncoated piece that has been in a water filled mason jar for 4 months with no detectable change, besides some mold) 3. Boats use this type of material all the time BUT with the added exposure of UV rays AND saltwater. 4. I would squeegee(SP?) off the walls after every use to minimize damage to the finish. 5. I realize that I would have to recoat the finish periodically (I am guessing every couple of years or so)
My questions are – What are your overall opinions/concerns? Are you worried about stains from the construction adhesive discoloring or damaging the plywood?
I think that I have thought this through pretty well, but I would appreciate any ideas you would have. Especially if you have done or seen something like this before.
Thanks! – Colin
Replies
No worries, mate. Except you'd have to keep that squeegee hangin' in the shower, if that's your intention.
You'd need to run a bead of silicone around the top and all joints.If it was me, I'd prefer to pin the ply to studs or use trim screws instead of glue.
Yes, I thought of pinning it to the wall with mechanical fasteners of various types but I want to maintain a totally seamless look (though headless pins are a good idea as a backup). I will cross clamp the pieces to the opposite walls until the adhesive completely sets.
You're kiddin, right?
No.
I did a similar design 7 years ago. wow, where does the time go?
Anyways, I used MDF and veneered it with Ash, then stained and applied several coats of McKloskey's Marine Varnish. Used yellow glue for the veneering in a vacuum press. I installed it using z-clips. The corners are embedded in silicone. Gorgeous......
Then in about 18 months the bottom of the panels started to absorb water. Now, keep in mind, I knew this might be a problem so I made sure to pay special attention to these edges when finishing. Applied thin coats first and the built up the coats 15 ply. It still failed/ absorbed water over time.
I then swapped out the panels for the ext. MDF and it has lasted 5.5 yrs. Just like new, even today. I was worried about cleaning off the soap scum. I now use a mild spray-on scum remover without any damage to the finish. Still high-gloss. Don't use cleasers or any kind of brush or teflon pad. Only sponges. I don't ever squeegee. Why? It's MARINE varnish!
Everybody remarks how beautiful and distinctive it is. Go for it!
I didn't try the Baltic Birch route because birch doesn't take a stain well. But you could veneer it I guess, but then why use something so costly?
No need to do any thing to the back of the panel. Water shouldn't get back there to begin with. You will know if the panel fails long before water reaches the back of the panel or the wall cavity - provided the wet wall plumbing was done properly. The other walls should be dry regardless. Only in masonry installations do you need to be concerned with this because masonry is porous.
F.
Thanks! Great advice! Regarding Baltic Birch - I do not want to stain it - I want the natural straw color of the birch and I like the tight veneers of the revealed "end grain" of this ply. I frequently use this look in cabinets and furniture that I build. Also, Baltic is faily reasonably priced in my area - one sixth the price of the tile that I would want.
I hadn't considered using Z clips, but that would seem to make future changes or repairs a lot easier. Did you find this to be true when you repaired your first version? Maybe this is the future of bath surrounds! You just take them with you when you move, like European cabinetry!!!! :<)
Can't remove the panels easily if you installed them properly. The silicone behaves like a remarkable adhesive. And by using z-clips, the panels are installed by sliding them DOWN the wall until they engage the clip. Once siliconed the three/ four panels behave as one unit. I dont think you'd be able to lift them all up at once to disengage.
F.
Instead of varnish what about epoxy.
As least you could epoxy the backside and the edges before installing.
By neighbor is getting ready to build a "stick and glue" boat. A little wood support, but basically just sheets of plywood that is cut to shape, holes drilled along the edges and wire is used to pull it together.
Then the whole thing is coated with epoxy. Now the boat needs to be painted because it is not UV resistant.
My thoughts as well.
I remember an article in FH about houses built on a budget. The guy used acorns as drawer pulls and stuff like that.
He made a tub out of 2x4's. Bricklaid and ground to the appropriate curvature, then he covered it in epoxy. I thought it was pretty cool.
Jon Blakemore
Sounds great. I agree that the weak point will be at the connection between the wall and the shower pan. I tiled my Mom's shower up about 2' and used T&G Cedar from there to 6' to create a "Japanese" bath look. I didn't put a finish on it at all. 10 years, no problems yet.
This is really no different than a "shower enclosure" made from plastic or Melamine panels. The real problems are likely to be at the corners and along the bottom, assuming that your varnish job holds up reasonably well. It's not going to be quite as permanent as tile, but should give 5-15 years of service if you pay attention to the details.
Be sure to hold the bottom edge off the tub rim slightly.
Some sort of back priming is probably a good idea to prevent warping from humidity changes.
Rather that squeegee, use one of the shower sprays. Try to find one without chlorine bleach, since bleach will attack the caulk and varnish. (I use the Arm&Hammer spray.) This works quite well, seems to control the mold on caulk, and avoids the abrasion of the varnish that a squeegee would cause.
Sounds great! I like Baltic Birch--though haven't been able to afford actually using it. I told someone who asked about wooden countertops in a kitchen to use it and leave the edges exposed and was told by someone else that this site is for "FINE" homebuilding. As Steve Martin would say, "Excuuuse me!"
Brother in law did a shower with oak ply 15-20 yrs ago using west system epoxy and silicone, 4 walls and floor never had a problem. go for it
I have a better cheaper idea. People throw them away all the time. You can make it any color. It comes in 4' to 6' widths.
Its tempered glass from old sliding doors.
You cant put a shower valve hole in it is the only problem.
I agree with Bill use epoxy
Three coats of WEST epoxy or equivalent, covered with a uv protection varnish will work well. I've used it for showers in boats effectively. You can use ground walnut shell in the epoxy in the floor foor tnon slip.
Good luck with the project.
I agree with the epoxy approach. Read a few boatbuilding websites. They will tell you the best way of applying the epoxy to get a good result. Timing and temperature play a role. If you apply the epoxy as the temperature is falling, you will get better results, as air bubbles will not come out of the pores of the wood and get caught in the epoxy. Also you can apply a second coat of epoxy while the first coat has pretty much hardened, but is still soft enough to be dented with your fingernail. That will cause a chemical bond between the two coats. Otherwise, you have to wait for the epoxy to harden fully and sand between coats to get a mechanical bond between the two coats. After the epoxy is hard, you should sand it and wash it before you coat it with varnish. If you purchase a 'no-blush" epoxy, you will have an easier time before you coat with varnish. Otherwise, the epoxy must be allowed to harden completely, and then all the blush contaminant must be washed/sanded off before varnish is applied.
Epoxy will add to the cost of the project. A less expensive epoxy I have used is Raka epoxy. It's a little thinner too, so it gets absorbed into the wood to seal it off pretty well. It worked well for me, and I would recommend it. http://www.raka.com/
Polyester resin would be a lot cheaper than epoxy and should work just about as well.
Good point.
Boat builders don't use Baltic birch. There are special marine plywoods available, the best are certified by Lloyds of London. Epoxy would be the finish of choice but it is a dangerous substance to use in a small space without thorough safety precautions. Renewing will take some doing. I've seen some beautiful wood bath tubs but just like a wood boat, they need TLC. You're probably going to have to do the tile someday, it's likely to be less expensive and easier than using the materials and tools you will need for wood construction. A respirator will cost $40 or more and you'll want to send the wife and kids to a hotel for a couple of days. Top quality plywood will scare you as will the cost of the epoxy. If anything moves with wood you will have a leak.
Hi
Have you thought of the West System used to build wooden boats? It basically epoxy seals the wood grain.
The other method I used was to buy a sheet of Armstrong Solarian flooring and put filets in the corners and used contact cement to stick it on. It was a (rhymes with rich) difficult job but got it done and was very low maintenance. A little trim along the top to hide the edge and it looked alright with no leaking corners.
http://www.westsystem.com
Cheers
Mac
Mac