I’m working on a house design for my dad. He doesn’t have much money to spend, so we are trying to do this design cheap. Really, really cheap. I’m trying to hit $25 per square foot, complete. Like, I said cheap. Anyways, an area where I can see some significant savings is in the siding. I’d like to use manufactured wall panels that we will erect ourselves. I’d like to use a exterior grade furr plywood siding. Typically the manufactured panels will come with the sheathing wrapped in the housewrap ready for the vinyl siding. They use 1/2″ plywood shear panels on the corners and 1/2″ rigid insulation off the corners. The local panel mfr. does not offer installed windows in their panels. If I omit the sheathing for only the plywood siding, how are the window heads flashed off? The windows will be stock vinyl.
Certified boat fetish.
Replies
You are not going to find many people here that will take part in the science experiment that you are proposing. Most of them have been through the cheap stage and they are tired of fixing poorly built problems. There are one or two that could put together a house using a refrigerator box and two spools of twine, but obviously, you haven't piqued their interest.
As far as the question of the windows, there's another thread with the same subject - flashing window heads under or over plywood. Basically, unless you get the window under the siding, or under a deep overhang, you are asking for trouble. They are bound to leak, maybe sooner, maybe later. people will try to caulk them in, or try to cover the window frame with casing and then caulk that in. Niether is a good system. You need flashing and/or drip cap over the window.
Don't know what the situation is that requires the house be built so cheap, but you best get some of the details done right now or he will pay for it forever. Good luck.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Certainly millions of homes have been built with clapboard or plank siding, without any sheathing.Re flashing, it can always be done effectively if you spend the time to figure it out and "think like a raindrop". It may require some extra trim or some such, though, and may not be pretty.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Dan - I do not disagree with you about houses being built without sheathing. It can be done. Is it a good idea? Not in my book. There's also the issue of local code.
As far as making things weathertight, and thinking like a raindrop, again, it can be done but the devil's in the details. OP has never built a house before and seems to be at the bottom of the learning curve. While there's nothing wrong with that, it's not a recipe for success, especially if they are going to be limited to an extraordinarily low budget.
I wish him/her luck, but I foresee some problems.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Yeah, I wasn't saying it was a good idea, just saying it wasn't outrageous.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
I tend to agree with DonK, but inexpensive tract homes have been built with t-111 siding over VB over studs. You do have to mount the windows directly to the R/O frame and cut the T-111 precisely so it fits just over the window frame with just enough gap to caulk.
I don't know where you're located (some profile info is always helpful), but your local codes may have some bearing on how minimal you can go with your construction.
This works best with vinyl windows which usually come with a full nail fin around the window, and the siding should cover that fin. I would take the additional step of installing a head flashing over the window befor the siding is installed.
T-111 has come to be a generic term, but a rough-textured plywood siding can be purchased without the grooves, making it a bit easier to weatherize, and some people will nail 1 X 3's vertically to the plywood siding to mimic a board and batten appearance.
I do think that if you can turnkey a house in this day and age for $25 per sq. ft, even if you're working for free, you are qualified to write a book on the process.
After all, the framing and siding are not the major money eaters in a house....it's all that stuff inside that drains the wallet.
There is a good chance your materials, to also include "allowance" items like appliances, floor covering, light fixtures, etc. will cost more than $25.00 per SF.
Like Notchman suggested, this would make for an interesting documentary, at least documented here. Post back and let us know how it goes, with pictures if possible.
I did that on my starter house - the T-111 flashing details weren't great, but big overhangs saved my tail. 24x32 1 bedroom 1 loft over garage, great room, bathroom; plus well and septic for $35K. (in 1998)
I came to hate T111, however. If you like the look, the Hardie product might hold up better - although you may need to let in bracing for racking prevention. I'm no vinyl advocate, but in retrospect vinyl would have been a better budget solution.
T111 says "cheap" to everyone, vinyl only says "cheap" to us FHB elites. Be certain to price the T111 - mine was 5/8 and pricey (and include finish and maintenance)Lining up tongue and grooves was hard on longer (2 piece) walls.
When I sold the house, it sold despite the T111, not because of it.
You might want to check your local code, as in my area plywood siding with no sheathing underneith is a no go.
Used 3/4 ply for the one shop built, single layer, battens on joints, 24 inch stud spacing. Window (garage sale freebies) flanges against framing like Notchman said. No roof overhang, no problems, did put an extra diagonally ripped 2x4 above the windows as drip ledge. .
As for cheap, am assuming you do garage sales (and have done for a couple of years) for appliances, etc. , if so, you will have no trouble hitting under $25 sq ft. For materials. Depending on your locale, the permits, etc. could run that much!.
Have enough stuf stockpiled to build another house when I retire, all nearly new at garage sale prices, as when the local Home Base and Ernst hardware went out of business (Kohler faucets for $2, etc), or hundreds of 3/4" 11 ply 5x10 baltic birchand 11 ft 2x8s off old pallets.
If you are not real picky, most carpet places will give you used carpet - hit the high-roller sections of town, some of the rich folks replace really good carpet from hugh rooms every other year!
Where I live (King Co WA), the permits and impact fees will total about TWICE what the actual building (not incl. labor) will cost!. After 20 years of collecting and planning, fer sure will hit under $10 sq ft, had started planning on doing the framing and utilities for under $1 sq ft!, but cement, drywall, and roofing prices today killed that hope.
Only thing have not been able to find both cheap and satisfactory is roofing - unless you have a wood lot and split your own cedar, which is a LOT of labor.
BTW, for really really cheap non-habitable except for cars, take a look at http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=59103.1
I hadn't thought of the permit issue - it costs 13K now just to get a permit!
Oh yeah - the T111 house was drafty - but I was pretty inexperienced then too, and interested in saving a buck more so than now.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Wow. Last night when I signed off there were no posts. Looks like things heated up overnight. Now lets clear some air. This is not the way I like to design things. But then, I'm used to doing projects that are around $200 a square (commerical medical). My dad lives in Arkansas and he's getting too old to be unsupervised. We found a property close to us, but due to the cost of living increase, we just don't have the money to spend. We are buying a open 3/4 acre lot with a condemed house for almost what his oak covered 10 acre 10 year old house is worth. Being on a fixed income, he can't fudge the numbers and make it work next year when he gets a raise. It's either we build this house super cheap or we stick him in a apartment. I'd really rather not put him in an apartment, he deserves better.
The house we are buying has a new water heater, well and holding tank. These were legally installed before the building inspector saw the structure. He'll also have most of his appliances from his existing house. Our state allows the owner to install his own plumbing system with a permit. I repiped my house several years ago and can do it again. I was figuring on buying wall panels and then erecting them ourselves. I was also going to use frost protected footings and treated wood foundations. Both of these are also legal in Wisconsin. The only thing I can't do is the electrical. Code requires a liscensed electrician. The last place we were going to cut are the interior finishes. Sanded and sealed B-C plywood floors. Open ceiling structure. Simple kitchen. Minimal interior walls. All of these things could make for a ugly home, but I'll see that it has some style in the massing and a couple of simple details that adds some character.
Science experiement? Maybe for me, but I know that this has been done before. I realized that the vinyl window needed to go behind the sheathing and the house wrap, but I thought maybe there was a different technique. I too was figuring on only applying this detail to the eves. The gables would see way too much moisture to take the risk. The eves will be very deep, and there should be minimal moisture at the window heads. The sills are a different story though. If I want to use the wall panels, it looks like I'll need a different panel mfr. as this one does not shop install the windows. That was my biggest hold up-field installing the window over the sheathing. What about a retrofit vinyl window? (Can you tell that I've never worked with vinyl windows before?)
I did a little searching on this T-111 siding as it was a product I had never heard of. Is this the particle board plywood siding that was being recalled several years ago? I was actually thinking of using a exterior grade rough sawn fir with out the grooves and then applying battens over it. Kinda parallels what you guys were talking about, but with a slightly better product. The gable ends might be sheet metal. I'm inspired by the copper used on a FHB article on a artist studio that was also built super cheap.
Certified boat fetish.