Greetings all!
I’m looking for advice on hiding the telephone and cable wires that run from the point of attachment on my home to my basement. A good deal of the interior in that location is being renovated so the walls are open in that area. The wires are currently running along my new siding job (in progress) and it looks awful.
My thoughts are to run a conduit (schedule 40 plastic) inside from the basement to the area where the wires are physically attached to the house. Any thoughts or advice on the subject?
One of my concerns is how to make the the transition from the wet exterior to the dry interior and keep it that way. Is there a weather head made for this type of application?
TIA
Replies
Are the wires overhead and under tension to the house? If so, are the wires connected to the house beneath an eave, or a fascia, or a gable end?
The wires are overhead & under the power lines as you described. The wires are connected to the house with a hook just above the first floor. They travel down and out over a roof that extends roughly 16" off of the side of the building.What I really would like to do is go through the wall an run the wires inside the wall cavity through a conduit. That is why I am researching the weather head idea.
Here are a couple of images illustrating the problem
You need to do something where those wires touch the roof edge -- eventually the wires will wear through unless protected somehow. You could install a weatherhead above the "rooflet" similar to the power service, or just install something on that edge to cushion the wires.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
I agree with you entirely. My original post explains (probably not very well that's why I posted the images) what I am trying to accomplish. I want to avoid going through the "rooflet" by going through the side of the building and running the conduit inside the wall cavity. I am fishing for good ideas to accomplish that.I have a little time before I close up the inside wall cavity so any ideas are greatly appreciated.Thanks for the info, it's a good idea to protect the wires rubbing on the roof's edge even though temporarily. With my luck that roof edge will do just what you mentioned. Thanks again
Is that 4 wire phone cable or Fiber optic cable?
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
It is a combination of cable TV and telephone wires. I do not believe any are fiberoptic.
You'd never see fiber bent tight like that. A "harp" would be used at the corners to maintain about a 4" radius turn.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
You can set up a regular electric weatherhead on top of metal conduit just like the electric. What the phone and cable companies care about is that
1. There is an easy and secure place to mount their junction gear to connect to your lines.
2. They have someplace to attach a ground wire.
Most homes don't plan for this sort of thing, so it's installed in the most haphazard ugly way imaginable. Hey, they aren't paid to plan well, just to install something functional.
Put up a mast head where you want the entrance to be, and run your phone and cable up through it. Leave plenty of extra. Alternatively, leave a string or some way to pull wire to your juntion box - some utilities insist on using all their own cables to devices.
On the mast, attach a couple of crossbars of unistrut, then attach a surface to attach to, like 6"x12" 18ga galvy sheet. Run a ground line and a bus bar to that surface. If you want to get fancy you could even mount a weatherproof box up there to run cables and junction boxes in!
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Some good points here thanks for the info. I am trying to run the wires in a conduit inside the wall cavity. I wonder if the phone co interface has to be outside, or can it be in my basement, where the conduit in the wall cavity would lead to. I can't run the conduit outside easily because of a short overhang located just below the point of attachment.
I think you are looking for Network Interface Device.
Here is a link to some options:
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/demarc.html#CC-CAC7700A
They have some with phone and COAX in the same box.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin. There is a network interface already attached to the house( Verizon) . It is just below the new siding job probably about 12" off of the ground.
You did not mention and "demarc's" or network interfaces.
In most cases, for new installations or changes (last 30 years), the phone company uses an outside Demarc k or Network Interface box. These are gray boxes about 6x8. They contain the surge protector and test jack. They have 2 overlapping doors. The top one, which is easier to access, is the customer side. There will be a test jack which you can unplug the house side and plug in a phone to see if the phone company connections are working. And it is where you make the house connections. The phone company is only responsible for service up to the demarc. Past that you are responsible or pay a monthly service fee.
Sometimes the demarc is inside for security. But if this is an older installation there might not be one. Now would be a good time to get one installed.
Cable sometimes uses a similar box, but often they just a small inline surge arrestor.
You can get weatherheads down to 3/4 and 1".
http://www.munroelectric.com/catalog/carlon/junction.html
If you can't find one and these is where you have a roof overhang just run the conduit up to with an 1" of the eves.
Worst case is to use 2 90's or a 90 and 45 to make a shepard's hook on the end.
In any case you will want to fill the inside end of the conduit with Duct Seal. That will block wind and condensation. Duct seal is a gray none hardening putty that you can get in the electrical isle at the home horror stores.
Unless there is an overriding need I would not try and change the attachment points of the cables.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Thank you William.There is a Network interface attached to the outside foundation, roughly 12" off of the ground level. That's all good. My problem is getting the wires from the point of attachment to the basement and not have it look like a mad dog wiring job. So the options I'm exploring is how to get the wires to the basement neatly. The main problem is there is a short overhang off of the first story that wraps around the entire house. That provides shade and keeps the rain out of the first story windows. My electrical service drop passes through that overhang with sch 80 PVC. I missed the boat though with the conduit run for communications. That's the reason I am exploring the smaller weather head leading to a conduit that punches through the wall close to the point of attachment and runs through the wall cavity and down into the basement. I don't need or want to change the point of attachment. It's nice and high where I need it. My problem is getting down the wall around the 1st story overhang.I certainly don't want to make a Rube Goldberg out of the job. I'm going for the neat simple look.Tomorrow I'll take a picture and post it as words are failing to adequately describe the problem me thinks.In any case, thanks again, I am getting great input and ideas from all you good folks.
The I have heard of people putting the demarc inside so that the wires are not accessible for cut the wires to disable alarm systems. But the telco likes them outside where they are accessible so that they can test up to it with no one home. Then if it is good at the demarc the problem is not theirs..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Our local telco likes the demarc inside, and the wires to come in through the wall as high up as physically possible, so that they can't be cut by burglars.
If the layout of the house allows it, people here put the entrance to the garage, and put the elect panel, demarc etc in the garage.
It's always good to run the cables in conduit if you can. Flexible plastic "smurf tube" is good for this indoors -- doesn't have to be rigid. (But rigid plastic is the best choice outside.) But be sure the conduit is large enough -- probably a minimum of 1" for two cables, larger if possible.
On the other hand, I did hide some telephone cable under the siding when I resided my house. I stapled the cable to the sheathing, burying it in a notch and using nail plates where it crossed over a stud, then marking the location of the wire when I applied the housewrap.
As stated elsewhere, most phone and cable companies now require an outside demarcation box near where the cable reaches the house. Usually this box will be supplied by the phone/cable company. The wires should come from the overhead/underground service to the demarc box, and from there they would enter the house.
Where the cable enters the house you have several choices. One is a simple hole drilled through the siding. The hole should be small enough that the wire is a fairly snug (but not overly tight) fit, then caulk around the wire. The wire should approach the hole FROM BELOW, with a "drip loop" if the wire is initially coming from overhead.
You can also (to make the direct connection to conduit) use a conventinal weather head, attached to the top of a weatherproof box. Or simply have the wire enter a weatherproof box from below, using a rubber gasketed conduit fitting, if you can find one, or just caulking the wires as they pass through a standard fitting. Always make sure there's a decent drip loop.
I get the picture you are painting. This is the best info so far. You are right, I don't necessarily need a weather head, I could go with a weather proof box as you described for the outside forming a drip loop and passing the wire/s through the bottom of the box. Here is what I'm thinking and please let me know if I'm overdoing it.Use a small siding J block just below the point of attachment.
Secure the weather proof box to the J block.
Use a 1" pipe nipple to pass through the wall.
Attach another box on the interior wall (cavity) back to back using the pipe nipple with the one outside. This allows me accsess for pulling more/new wires in the future
Run the 1" conduit down the wall cavity to the basement where it connects to the demarcation/interface box. If the demarcation box must be outside, it really is not a problem because the wires currently pass through the foundation through a strait piece of schedule 40 PVC.Thanks again for your help. .
Yeah, that's more or less what I had in mind. I've got something similar feeding my antenna feeds into the house. I used a piece of waterproof flex through the wall because I needed a jog between the two boxes.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Can you post a pic of your box(es)? One thing you need to think about is that the box(es) are the point of demarcation between you and the phone/cable company. That means that they "own" the box(es) and get a vote on how/where they're attached to your house.
The wires are yours from the box(es) into the house, but they own the box(es) and the wires coming into them.
One thing most of the installers i know (either phone or cable) prefer that the demarc be at about chest high .To me thats about four and a half foot tall. They also want a #6 wire to ground to power with.
Edited 3/20/2009 11:21 pm by ottago
I was out walking today and notice a house where the drop attached to the eves, about 10 ft off the ground.And right next to it was the demarc.I don't think that 10 ft is chest high for many people <G>..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
All of them around here are up on the eves.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
oops, mine is about 12" off of the ground, mounted to the foundation. The phone company has been here already to work on the box. He did not seem to take issue with the location. I just hung all the siding on the first floor and didn't want that equipment on my new siding job. Before I started the siding job, the phone co drilled a hole in the old siding and just ran the wire along 7 - 10' horizontally on the outside where he could get the wire to the room where the computer was. ( I was not home at the time.) It looked terrible.After seeing that, I don't allow any of the utilities to attach anything to my home without me being there. Don't get me wrong, a majority of the installers look to do a professional job, but like any business there are those knuckleheads spread out there that just don't care.Sorry bout the rant, thanks for your help.
Hi Dave45,I'm going to post a photo tomorrow. Thanks for the input. You're right about the photo. It sure will save a loy of typing to describe the issue.Thanks
An easy way to do this is to put an LB conduit body on the outside. That way you have a straight shot to run the cable inside, then poke them down through the other opening and put the cover on. It will be flat against the wall. Put some duct seal in around the hole so it isn't a wasp condo.
What kind of siding do you Have?
And what's inside at the point of attachment? And how high is it?
are they in a trench to the house?
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
Take a look at the photos I posted yesterday. They should fill in some of the blanks.I'm putting Vinyl siding up. Inside the point of attachment is a hollow stud bay (24" on center for this particular location. The stud walls are 2x4 actual dimension.
The pictures help a lot. As others have mentioned, you can create a mast hood to create a weather-proof entrance to the house. Often cable guys simply put a loop in the wire and then silione the hole in the wall - the loop causes the water to drip at the bottom, and it tends run down and away from the house.The thing is, you really have to get the phone line into that demarcation box before you enter the house. That box is meant to allow a technician to come and isolate problems in the line. Any problem on the house side of that box is then the homeowner's problem, not the phone company's. If that were my house, I would supply another conduite through the roof and enter the house near the ground.I guess that you could maybe put that same conduit inside as you've mentioned, but bring the wire back out to the demarc box before re-entering the house.