am wanting to create a small waterfall and stream (about 20 feet long with a total 6 foot drop to the surface, and another 3 feet to the bottom of the rubber lined hole). I have seen kits to do this, but they are pretty expensive. I was thinking that I could buy my EPDM liner inexpensively from a builder supplier, use a sump pump plastic barrel to house a pump which can be easily removed before winter, and easily obtained plastic pipe and fittings to run to the top of the waterfall.
Wondering how much I need to think about a filtration system, especially if there is no surface water. I plan to fill the rubber lined hole in which the barrel sits completely with stone, sand, and gravel, with a shallow layer of stone above the lid to hide it. The barrel could be punctured to allow water in to be pumped out by the submergible pump. Wondering if I can create my own filtration system merely by layering sand/gravel mixtures in the hole.
Has anyone done this? Any recommendations for pumps or other materials?
Also, is there any problem using limestone (which is what I have a lot of naturally)? Will I need to (or can I) clean out the pump for lime build up annually?
Not sure I am logged in properly with email address, so I will leave it here if anyone feels like back-channeling me.
Thanks,
Joe Mirenna, southern Wisconsin
Replies
i think you can do it pretty much exactly as you plan... you could add a few features... a way for extra water to run off after a rain... an auto fill to ad water (livestock supply house) as for your pump... all depends on volume & lift 6ft fall & 4ft barrel... 10ft of lift... i'd ck harbor freight they run pumps onsale all the time and will replace anything you buy from them... for you run'n it all the time pay for the extra coverage when you buy the pump and they'll replace it 10x a year if need be...
p
One mistake a friend with a similar installation made was planning for electric outages. He flooded his house the first time. All the water's gonna go, and stay, downhill.
He doesn't filter, but does have a lot of plants and a few fish along the way. His pump isn't submersible, in an underground box, head of probably 25'.
Works very well.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
filtration is a must unless you want a slime pool after a few years.
check out these guys for some info http://www.stoneycreekequip.com/index.html
Also if you build a 6 ft. waterfall can I come and run it with my kayak?
If you are not including fish, I think you can skip mat-type filtration, but read on. UV sterilization will eliminate free algea, but not the string algea common in ponds.
A submersible pump will eliminate any problems with a flooded pump box, but they tend to be less energy efficient than in-line pumps. For my pond, I use a Sequence pump and it sucks very few watts.
Sand can be a good filter, but don't use it on the intake side of the pump, or you'll burn your pump out quickly. I'm not clear on your design, but you need some source for the waterfall--why not use a small Purifalls system that will give you a weir and a mat-based ltration system? Unless your source is just going to be some bubbling up water, you'll want something to create a waterfall weir.
For pipe, use schedule 40 PVC.
this is my waterfall, about 4' high, drops into a small pond, 50' stream, larger pond at bottem.
I built what is called a kippy filter. These are easy to build and so far works well for me.
Also have pictures of stream and lower pond.
Choosing lines etrc can be , eh, fun.
I would use irregation line if I had it to do over, I did use PVC non flex.
If you get flex house make sure you get the right fitting. I planned to replace part of my line out of teh pond which is flex line. I thought I bought 1.5" but it turned out to be a metric rather than english. Heck of a time getting the fittings I needed.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
I have trouble in attaching pictures and adding to my post so...
From what I can determine EPDM used in construction and that sold by pond folks is the same except the construction type may have talc on it that you wiull have to wash off.
I bought a 3300gph pump, have a 14' head so I figgure I get about 1500gph flow.
epdm comes in differeent widths so depending on your sizes and whats available you may not have to do much cutting.
My filter is at the waterfall and is a 100gal rubbermaid animal trough
building the ponds can be interesting. My edges are too rounded, should have been more verticle.
watch the wattage on your pump choice, can get expensive if you pick the wrong pump.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Edited 4/16/2006 6:33 pm ET by bobl
Hey everybody who wrote in. Thanks so much for the advice. To the person who recommended Harbor Freight. I was just there yesterday looking at pumps. Wondering if there are differences in pumps that I should be aware of. Another person said to look at in-line pumps rather than submersible. Wonder if some pumps are noisier than others. Someone else recommended a weir mat filtration system at the top of the waterfall. Where do you get that?
Also wondering if everyone understood that I don't want any real surface water in a pond at the bottom. Rather, I want a puddle of rocks into which the water falls then sinks below the surface (to be pumped back to the top.
Please keep ideas coming.
Joe
You want some kind of storage for water at the bottom of the stream. If power fails all the water in the stream will flow down and overflow the puddle of rocks.
Even if the overflow doesn't flood your house as someone mentioned you'll be adding lots of water whenever the pump is shut off.
I did what your planning and eventually turned the stream into a dry streambed because of this problem.
Mikeys,I am planning to dig a large hole and line it with rubber, then fill it with rocks and a sump barrel. Shouldn't that hold the water?
it will
make sure you leave a way for children, pets and the elderly to get out of it after they fall in...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's what I'm talking about!
You can get most all materials (including pump, filter, liner and fittings) from http://www.azponds.com
I've used them for many supplies to my pond and find that they have good prices and good support.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
check with the ornate rock sellers...
a lot of have ponds as an attraction and the stuff that goes with it...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
think i picture what you want... ie no standing water....
think i'd bury a plastic 55gal drum.... build some type rack to hold a filter material... then sand then rocks...up off the bottom of the drum... the pump would sit under this "filter of rocks & sand" however big you want the rock surface that the water falls on is how big I'd get the rubber liner material.. with the drum top opening 6-8" below the surface the rubber liner with a 20" round hole centered over the drum... the ground slopped under the liner to the drum... rocks on the liner... waterfall built on top of the liner.... that way everything drains to the drum even the splashed water and water that leaks off the fall.... and is pumped back up to... fall again... now add a natural gas line and get some fire on the water also... and post pics
p
Here is another good resource. They specialize in the small scale home water features and have some samples on-site similar to your plan. Worth a call to consult - they're good people.
http://www.realrockind.com/main.html
Check out this months edition of "The Family Handyman" magazine. Kind of low tech for this audience, but their cover story is exactly what your describing. A waterfall with out a standing water pond at the bottom. Worth checking it out.
Dave
Check out this months edition of "The Family Handyman" magazine. Kind of low tech for this audience, but their cover story is exactly what your describing. A waterfall with out a standing water pond at the bottom. Worth checking it out.
Yup Dave beat me too it. Go buy this months special backyard projects issue of Family Handyman its got exactly what you want.
On the flooding just make sure your bottom sump pit is big enough to hold all the water you want to use. Then if the power goes off no problem.
Another poster talked about his 'kippy' filter what I think he meant was 'Skippy' filter.
http://www.skippysstuff.com/
Its an easy-cheapish diy pond filter that works pretty darn good. If you are not having a ton of 'standing water the sand around the sump pit will act as a filter and maybe you can get away with just that.
The submersible pumps do use more energy but they are also way easier to use. Are you going to run this 24/7?? If you are only going to be running it for effect while you are out there then the difference is negligible.
my $.02
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
yup, Skippywonder if the OP has a natural site with 6' drop or is building it.also, if it is a 6' strieght down drop or a series of steps dropping 6'.also don't think he neds much of a filterbut he should expext soime algue buikd up on the splash area, don't know if he'll get string algue or not ( iirc barley hay cure?)
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter