I think we’ve all been there: visiting a friend, and said friend shows off some ugly, poor quality work on his own house. I hardly know what to say in those situations. “What do you think?”
Thankfully, none of my friends has done any dangerously stupid structural or electrical work. Still, it creates a funny feeling when a friend removes vinyl cove ‘baseboard’ in the bathroom – to lay attractive new flooring – and then glues it back on. Or shows off a newly-painted kitchen with an abundance of paint splatter on the cabinets, and roller-marks on the ceiling.
Don’t think I’m being elitist here – my buddies are guys who studied engineering and science. They’re smart and skilled, but their strengths lie elsewhere.
What’ve you got?
Replies
Been there, and I was that.
Even now, I look at the hole I put in my bathroom ceiling for the fan, and I wince at the mudding job.
I'm doin' the master bedroom now - I'll get to redoing that hole in the spring.
The 'rocker I showed it off to just smiled and said "It's fine", and that was that.
We all learn.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
Did a spruce job on an old apt I'd done the same for like 10-15 years or so back.
dang, frigging embarrassment to look at some of what I'd done back then.
be who? me? nah, I didn't have anything to do with that, nosirree!Peace out.
I agree with Biff.
Cutting a hole in a ceiling is not like getting into the breaker box , live.
I have a good sense of where I'm not competent. All I need do is look at how my Dad "helped" the electrician.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
Did a spruce job on an old apt I'd done the same for like 10-15 years or so back.
dang, frigging embarrassment to look at some of what I'd done back then
I got a reprieve on one like that. Durring the time the units were empty, someone broke in and ripped out all the copper. Made a real mess of things, but some of my work that was still in tack from 20+ years ago made me grimace a little.
Dave
hehheh
I was reminiscing on putting a 22 inch stainless sink in an 18 inch deep countertop.
snorK*Peace out.
Never tried that!
Did an opps on a freebee countertop. Cut the sink in 8" off center of the sink base. Put a "free" cutting board (ceramic no less) in the oops.
Dave
and suddenly off-symentrical design came in vogue!
be an advocate of nature's freeform qualitiesPeace out.
The freebee was for a young electrcian. Actually he was a Master electrcian long before i made it. I learned a lot from that young man.
what he learned from me was azz-symetrical thinking:)
As one of the DIY'ers trying to maintain a 100 year old home, I'd prefer honesty from the professionals rather than platitudes. It would help me to do better next time.On the flip side, I've had "professionals" complete work for me that I'm sure wouldn't pass muster by a majority of the pros here. They seem proud of the work but a semi-knowledgeable person would know otherwise.I'm just saying the shoe fits on both sets of feet. :-)Diane
You gettin' hammered by the weather tonight?
Forrest - good luck with that
It was bad today. Lots and Lots of debris and tons of water. Wind peaked at gusts of 60 mph. and tons of rain. We have tons of Trees so a lot of downed branches and knocked out power. I saw three crushed cars today on the streets from various trees. Power is out in my block except for mine and a neighbors house (different circuit I guess). There were 3 big rigs that were blown over on the freeway by the wind pretty much blocking all the freeways anywhere. Overall a big mess.It's calmed down here but it's moved on the Sierra where they're predicting 10' of snow on the mountain passes. All the routes over the Sierras are closed. 3rd of 3 storms supposed to hit tomorrow. Diane
To be fair, I should mention that my own house shows all the scars of my learning experiences.
Edited 1/4/2008 1:33 am ET by Biff_Loman
It happens all the time to me. I just say "looks great" and let it slide.
I have a really good friend who lives in a jury rigged heap and another who has air in her house so toxic that no one in our family can stand to be there for more than an hour or two and 90% or the problem is a new AC that is twice the size required to cool the house so it's just dampness and condensation on all the rugs and paneling and mildew every where. But they NEVER get too hot in the summer.
Takes all kinds. I'm just glad that my clients appreciate the work I do.
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
When my MIL died, i rec'd back a jewelry box i'd given her 20 years earlier, one of the first ones i made. I was fixing to be embarrassed by the sharp edges, the too-thick stock, and the applied hinges, but then i thought, no...i should only be embarrassed if i did that quality of work still.
Still live in the first house we built (built, not sub-contracted) 35 years ago.
Surprised some of it still looks good considering the limited tools we had at the time.
Still grimmace at the bulge next to the back basement walk-down door in the 8 ft. high foundation wall though <G>, but remember at least the form did not break.
Ah, to have had the skills and tools then as now, not to mention strength and energy and financial resources.
Yeah, I try to pass on the knowledge and skills I have to my sons. They're learning well. Maybe give them a heads up when they're out on their own, instead of learning like I did. My first trim work was mitered with a jig saw and a file. It's still up, good thing it's painted. Actually it turned out OK, considedering.
endearing features... character.... all are words i apply as needed...
when you did the best you could with what you had to work with at the time... I don't think you should ever hide from your work... i see stuff i did 30 years ago and think "damn... show me a 17yo that could do that today"
even now i do work that i'd rather do better... but it's all about balance.. i try hard to do work... that i won't have to revisit...
never complain... never explain... your friends don't need it... and the rest won't believe you anyway...
happy new year
p
show me a 17yo that could do that today
Good observation, thanks for the reminder - evertime I visit Mom I notice that the wall shelves and drawers I built when I was 12 YO are still on the wall 50 years later, and the corner bric-brack shelf I made (from a pattern) when 6 YO is still in the front hall. The 5 YO grandson usually spends 15-30 min when he is over making a puzzle out of 1/8" board on the scroll saw, DIL would probably croak if she knew I let him turnon power tools by himself??.
In the spirit of this thread, the one thing I ALWAYS notice about those shelves is that one center board was cut about 1/2" short - it has a 3" piece scabbed onto it with nails only, recall at the time thinking I'll be going away to college in 5 years, so that is all the longer the shelves need to last?
Art, years ago there was an article in FWW, maybe the last page moments, by a guy who was amateur woodworker.
He revealed all his screw ups and how he had managed to almost hide them. Been a long while, maybe 20+ years ago, but it struck home at the time and still does.
Joe H
You'll run into this in remodeling alot. A HO did something and it looks like hammered sh!t. So be careful what you say in others homes.
I did a job for a HO recently, I commented on how well the house was built and the attention to detail. Stain grade oak casing and base that was tight. Very well done.
Turns out he built the house, did all the work on it. He was a carpenter before he became an owner of a magazine here in town.
He raftered the roof, cut up by the way. Rake walls and all. Nice framing in the attic.
I rebuilt his kitchen island with newel posts and dovetail joinery. He told me that he is going to keep me plenty busy in the years to come.
He hired me on a referral from another customer. He told me that I reminded him of himself 30 years ago. I took that as a compliment considering the work he did at that time.
Woods favorite carpenter
I try not to be too critical of other's work; you just don't know who did what.
I went to see some work a while back, everything had been done ok, but it was obviously done by someone without benefit of much experiance. I pointed out a few things I thought had been done right, and commented what could be done to improve the overall situation. The client thanked me, saying that the two previous contractors she'd had look at the project had done nothing but ridicule the original worker, who just so happened to be her son.
So you never know.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"
"You'll run into this in remodeling alot. A HO did something and it looks like hammered sh!t. So be careful what you say in others homes."
That is the truth! Be careful what you say! You never know what loving family member did the crappy work as a favor and the homeowner loves it!
Numerous times I look at a bath remodel where someone just has to keep the existing floor, vanity etc. All of which look bad but are new. Then it comes out that uncle so and so or my dad did that as a favor till we could afford to fix the rest. So commenting on it can be a real deal killer since you may be insulting someone they love. DanT
Lots of wisdom here.But I'll still chuckle to myself when my buddy decides to paint over the wallpaper or refuses to believe that 3.5" of fiberglass isn't enough insulation for the ceiling of a finished loft. ;-)
In another thread here we recently discussed the trials and tribulations of Habitat for Humanity. Locally they like to say - "do it to the quality you would find acceptable for your own home." The problem is that these Habitat people, not being professionals, don't understand that probably fully 50% of the people out there don't know good or marginal work when they see it and then throw in the unskilled labor factor and your chances aren't that good of getting a decent looking product.
something I heard once, "do the best you know how, when you know better,do better"
Years ago, a friend of mine had completed medical school, had specialized in pediatrics and was delivering a lot of babies in a local hospital.
I asked him what he said to the mother of an especially butt-ugly newborn.
He smiled and said "What a baby!"
My youngest just graduated and has her first real job in a school system. She said the acronym they use is FLK (funny looking kid).My biggest recurring "Poor DIY Project" is someone that thinks Gorilla Glue is the miracle cure for all situations. Just add a bit more to be sure. Usually ends up with a mess to clean up before I can start.99029.15 in reply to 99029.1 > I asked him what he said to the mother of an especially butt-ugly newborn.> He smiled and said "What a baby!"
I try and keep my mouth shut.....unless otherwise "provoked".
FILs neighbor had asked me to give him a price on building his deck. When I did, he was a bit taken back with the price. Appologized and said he couldn't afford it, but maybe he could come to me with questions if he did it himself. I told him sure. Most of his questions were structural. He and his son (a HS "friend" of mine) built it over the course of a month on weekends and evenings.
I was there for a BBQ later that summer. Deck was pretty simple, and a bit sloppy in parts....but all in all not bad for a DIYer. I complimented the guy on doing a nice job.
In an instance where the apple does actually fall far from the tree, he expressed gratitude for all of my guidance and told me that he now understood where my price came from. Even suggested I might wanna charge more. He had an entirely new perspective on just what a "simple" project actually entails.
Whereas his son who was also at the party, and drinking far too heavily, decided to let me know how much better he, as a banker, was than me, a lowly carpenter. And that what I did was "N" work.....and how he was never going to pick up a hammer again in his life.
I agreed with him that his abilities to swing a hammer suggested that he remain in his cubicle never to attempt probably the most simple of building projects (deck) again.
I probably shouldn't have mentioned to him that his wife had earlier been admiring my bicepts and actually commented on how how she prefered them to the spare tire her husband hauled around.....but, I did.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Mr. Diplomacy, I see! LOL
Roar! Now that's funny right there!Peace out.
perfect, that will teach the scuzz bag
Good one! DanT
I think I just woke my kids due to my laughter. That is a great story. Suits as we used to call em'
I had an office gig for three years. Those boys can have it.Dave Otto -- Otto Construction -- PA
Biff LOman
I'm one of those guilty DIY guys. I built a home in a way that no one has ever done before and I doubt will ever do again..
Sure it's massively over built, I mean the walls have the load carring capability of a railroad bridge. I can see countless flaws in it's execution but luckily untill I point them out few notice them (or are at least polite enough to overlook them)
Six years into it and very little of the interior is finished but work continues...
The correct answer I believe is to smile and give a minor compliment.
I'm a little blunt for that and usually give an honest yet gentle suggestion on how they can make it better.
In your paint example, I'd probably say, Hey, the walls look great and if you got a soap and water, or goof off, those small splatters on the cab's would come right off.
That's only for stuff that isn't dangerous, if somebody does something that could potentially harm them or someone else I'll be direct and to the point.
I'll add one more in here based on a prev. post about bad 'pro' work.
My Mom's house had a few things done by 'pros' just before and after Pop died (he DIYed everything till he died of cancer at 83 YO)
The 'pros' that removed a big ash tree dropped the stub on a sidewalk and broke it so bad the pieces wouldn't lay back in the hole - not carpentry, but even I would have known better than to drop it like they did. Guess who got to pour when back on a 'vacation'.
3 years ago 'Pros' painted Mom's house, it was the absolute worst paint job I've ever seen. Gouged wood from pressure washer, painted over flakes, etc. Gonna have to DIY it I guess in another couple of years.
Did Mom's roof also DIY, no bids even. Others here said I could have gotten a good roofing job if I'da offered $20K for what we wante done (yeah, on a $30K house due to location).
I've seen Blodgett's and ProDek's work, and would hire someone of their talent if I became disabled, as I could afford $20K if need be these days. Doubt I'd ever hire somebody 'off the street' even if disabled to do a roof for $20K.
Kiddiecorner from my place a guy hired a "Professional Tree Cutting Service" to down a large old maple in his front yard.
Somehow someone made a decision to drop the thing without cutting any limbs beforehand and do the trimming later after the tree was on the ground. So much easier you understand.
Well, they cut it down alright. And as it twisted on it's way down it nailed the electric lines and snapped a pole.
First time I'd ever seen burnt dirt like that where the lines had cooked the earth.Peace out.
First time I'd ever seen burnt dirt like that where the lines had cooked the earth
Bout the color of the skid marks in thier short, I would bet.
<quote>
3 years ago 'Pros' painted Mom's house, it was the absolute worst paint job I've ever seen. Gouged wood from pressure washer, painted over flakes, etc. Gonna have to DIY it I guess in another couple of years.
<quote>When selecting someone to paint your house, I would advocate that you ask them to provide several local references and then talk to those customers and ask to see the work they did. Most pros are happy to provide references and their customers would be glad to show their work.
This is an interesting thread, but I think some of you tradesmen might be coming down a little too hard on us unprofessional DIY types. I lived near a GC for four years, a guy who billed himself as one of the area's top builders of quality homes. In 2005 he and his family left town even though he had quite a few houses under construction and finished for sale. Odd circumstances and some folks said he was running from a big lawsuit. This builder's house became a rental for two years and the property was foreclosed in December. The renters (nice folks BTW) were kicked out and the bank listed it as REO.
The real estate agent hired by the bank had an open house and my wife and I decided to give it a look because it was nearby, and we thought the bank might be willing to deal. After looking it over I was shocked at the shoddy, half-finished work, and I felt sorry for the poor guy's wife and kids who had to live there. Falling sheetrock on the ceilings, doors that didn't close, uneven tile work on the kitchen floor, etc., and those were just the cosmetic issues. The electrical system had so many code violations I don't even see how he could have rented that place in good conscience. The heating system was a kludge as well - a gas furnace with poor ventilation and no CO or NG alarms in sight. This house needed probably $40K or work to make it comparable to other places around it, so it made little sense as an investment property.
I thanked the agent and left with a better appreciation for the DIY efforts my wife and I have made over the past six years. We might not be professionals, but it looks like the pros have their bad days too.
Ya know, beauty is in the eye, etc.
A work of art is often what someone had the courage to take on without the benefit of training, tools, practice or skills.
I find beauty in the work of any DIY'er.... and tell them so.
Every ugly baby has a mama.
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
I expected this thread to be more funny and good-natured than it turned out.
Hey.....I did my part.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
What I want to know is how you got the keys to my and have all these guys to walk through it. I don't even let clients any where near my place, they would never hire me.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I did a lot of work on our house about 15 years ago and I look at some things and shake my head and say what was I thinking?! A few things have stood the test of time and still look fine. We're just about ready to do the redesign & redecorate thing again, so I get to see how much my technique has improved over the last 15 years. I think the biggest difference between now and then is I'm willing to take a lot longer to get it right than I used to be. I think having a kid has either increased my level of patience or has me looking for reasons o be distracted longer.
I've been working on my 1890's home for the last 15 years. Grew up in the construction trade (lots of different types of work, but mostly with modular homes) but went to college in the early 80's instead of going to work. My older brothers both worked in building, but the times and their young wives dictated they get respectable, steady paying jobs, and dad's arthritis shut down his business shortly after. My dad taught me to never be afraid to try anything, but don't be afraid to ask someone who knows more than you first. That advice has served me well, miss my dad, cancer got him just before he was to come help me replumb all the copper in my basement years ago. Living and working in the house I do has taught me much, like when they say they don't build them like they used to the appropriate reply is thank god. Or that plumb, level, and square are relative terms. And that the old growth tight grain lumber is probably the only thing holding a lot of old houses upright, and its hard as hell when you have to nail or screw into it. When i look back on the work I did when we first moved in, I know I could do much better now, (like the floor to ceiling brick facade on the fireplace-first time i've layed brick instead of just mixing the mud, or the casing I milled myself because i couldn't afford to buy it finished) but I've kept to the spirit of the old place and done the best i could do every time. Building and making something with my own head and hands is the most satisfying thing I have ever done, and to anyone willing to do it themselves, i say bully for you, regardless of the end product.
Bravo! Bravo! Give that man a ceegar! View ImagePeace out.
second Rez, great post.
edit PS, did not recon the handle, super post for #9
Edited 1/7/2008 9:54 pm ET by junkhound
I was doing a re-roof job a few years back and one of the things to go was the stone chimney(which was a horrible mess) None of it was right and as I'm slamming away at it with a sledge, swearing at the "skilled" mason who built it the foreman comes over and not thinking about it I just go off about how I'd love to meet the #### who built it. He cleared his throat(and I'll never forget it) and says" that's funny, cause I built it"
He never subbed me out again:)
win some, lose some, but always keep your opinions to yourself unless asked