Hello to All! I have a question on basement walls. Next summer I plan to break ground building my first house. I want to know which type of walls are better. Poured or Block? I have spoken with a few contractors on each side of the fence and getting a lot of bias opinions. What about cost? I am looking at about a 2700′ colonial.
Replies
Id opt for ICFs over block and conventional poured walls. But in all reality your building conditions (soil type, amount of rain, climate conditions, home layout) would play into consideration.
But id take poured over block any day. But look at the ICF systems, less labor, better function over poured. No forms set up and remove, no insulation needed since most walls are in the r30+ range
Thanks for the info, never had given much thought to ICF
My research continues with that on the list!
Edited 8/18/2003 9:45:07 PM ET by StogMan
You will not regret the ICF wall.
I love ICF blocks but I think you are exagerating like a used car salesman.
" No forms set up "
What do you call setting the blocks in place properly? That time can be more than setting and stripping regular forms.
"most walls are in the r30+ range"
The ones I am familiar with are rated around R22. You've got four to five inches of foam which runs R5/inch and maybe enough crete to grant an R-1 on it's own.
Then there's the stucco finish appearance to do, and waterproofing can be trickier than poured.
The pumper is almost a necessity for ICFs but is optional on most poured foundations
On most jobs the ICF foundation is my first choice, but we need to be realistic.
Excellence is its own reward!
I define forms as set and remove, where as the ICFs you leave in place. Forms take twice the labor whereas ICFs are generally set it once and pour. I guess its a matter of perception.
And youre right my R values were off, the ones im familiar are in the low 20s.
Edited 8/19/2003 10:08:18 AM ET by WmP
My perception is that it can take a little longer to set up ICF forms than panel forms, and that the stucco coating time is comparable to the time spent stripping so that overall, the labor is similar..
Excellence is its own reward!
My perception is that it can take a little longer to set up ICF forms than panel forms
I'm certain that I don't save any time with my antiquated method (CDX and snap ties), but the kicker for me is that I get the mass on the inside of the insulation, where it thermally should be. Not to mention the curves, thicker walls, better steel placement for tall retaining walls (15'), and much stiffer mud for vibration.
I've recommended ICFs for owner-builders working solo. I don't see a great cost difference either way if you're only looking at the R value and want a simple wall.
Saw the result of a tall ICF pour where you could see light through the wall in several unintended places. I know that structurally it didn't matter, but sure was disconcerting. When we strip our forms the pour quality, or lack thereof, is there for all the world to see. That's a major reason why I hate pumping.
ACI seems to think the future lies with ICFs. Maybe elsewhere.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
The pumper is almost a necessity for ICFs but is optional on most poured foundations
Around here, a pumper is always used on ICFs. The concrete guys will laugh at you if you try it any other way. And you need braces to keep them from blowing out. But I wouldn't do it any other way.
I would never use concrete block for a foundation with a basement. It's just too porous, even with modern waterproofing, and too fragile for a really solid foundation. It would be ok for a foundation for something like a garage. Typically you'd need horizontal reinforcement (like DuraWall) every third course and a vertical rebar about every 4 feet or so with the cores containing the rebar filled with concrete. Maybe more in some soils. The rebar would be wired to a rebar set in the footing. The top course would be bond beam with a couple of rebar all around and bent corners.
For a basement poured or ICF is the way to go in my opinion. I used ICF's on my own home 3 years ago and love it. But, they are more expensive than strippable forms.
If your contractor has never used ICF's before, see if you can talk him into taking the manufacturer's free class, or having the rep visit him on site a few times.
No, a pumper truck is not always needed. If there is good access most of the way around ICF's can be filled right from the chute if the contractor doesn't do anything incorrectly in the bracing of the forms or the placement of the concrete.