First Hardi job for me coming up. Client is leaning toward prefinished in a standard color. Any reason not to do this?
I’m sure I’ll have more questions as this develops.
Thanks in advance.
Bear
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I still love mine. It was saw cut, not sheared. Nice square clean cuts. If your careful there is no need to touch up. Joints were splined with TP, no caulking.
Did mine with prefinished (and smooth too) and it came out great. Just be careful with the install (handle it with care) an you'll be ok.
Doug
check out finehomebuilding mag. #197 sept./08 there is a good article about factory finished siding.including wood and fiber cement ( hardie's color plus)
also installation tips
good luck................nicko
Pick up a copy of the James Hardie literature about storage, handling, sequence of picking, etc. Digest it all before beginning.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Thanks for the replies. I'm looking forward to the project.Bear
We just finished a job and used the pre-painted Hardi-plank for the first time.
We found that we just had to be more aware while working with it since it wasn't going to be painted again, eg. tak more time with our saw cuts, not scratching the finished surface, and keeping it clean.
There is a book that your supplier can give which details step by step the methods of installing this type of Hardi-plank.
- Paint all cuts with the the supplied touch-up paint.
- And caulking the butt joints are optional.
- For all the other caulking requirements, we just used clear exterior latex caulk and touched up some areas with the touch-up paint.
It is a pretty good finished product and with some extra car, it does make for a nice finished product without the need for hiring a painter.
I've installed the prefinished on two homes and the preprimed on two others. In my limited experience I can't think of a single reason not use the prefinished provided you can find the color you'd like. I didn't find handling it to be much more of an issue than it was with the primed stuff. The planks lend themselves to being handled carefully anyway... finish or not. We used touch up on the raw cuts and used aluminum slip flashing between the joints. We also used the color matched caulking where we needed the occasional face nail and at all other butt joints.... corner boards and window trim in particular.
What is the cost differential between finished and unfinished? Is it more economical to use the prefinished since you don't have to paint? Would the bottom line cost per square paid by the homeowner, be the same on either product, since in the end the homeowner is getting the same product (painted hardi) when the job is done?Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
Hmmm.. good questions but tough to answer. In my (limited as I said) experience using the prefinished provided a better value. The last time I priced hardi was in April. The costs were as follows for the small house I was residing:
6.25" x 12' Cedarmill Hardiplank (preprimed) 672 pieces at $6.05/pc for a total of $4065.60
6.25" x 12' Prefinished Hardi 672 pieces at $7.85/pc for a total of $5275.20
So if the preprimed was purchased, it would leave about $1200 left over for a paint job. I really don' t know exterior painting prices very well right now, but I can tell you that I couldn't/wouldn't have painted that house for $1200. And you need to keep in mind that Hardi offers (if I recall correctly) a 15yr warranty on their paint job. This job was on Kittery Harbor in ME so it made good sense to get the warranty and the prefinished siding.
I honestly don't feel that you can say the homeowner gets "the same job in the end" though. It depends too much on the quality of the aftermarket (for lack of a better term) paint job which can vary greatly in my experience. At least you have some consistency with the prefinished hardi product. This is all just my opinion though.View Image
Just make sure you follow the Hardie installation guide no matter what color you use.
we've done primed......
and pre-finished...
and pre-finished with a field applied overcoat...
on a budget job the pre-finished was fine... but my 1st choice would be pre-finished with color matched caulk and a final coat of finish.... the trim all gets one coat prime and two coats finish
Mike, this might be a dumb question, but when you do pre-finished with a field applied finish coat over... do you get the paint somehow through Hardie or Weatherbest? Or do you just match closely with local stuff? Or is their a way to find out what they use at the factory and just buy the same locally?
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Mike, another question: When you went with the prefinished and then a final coat of finish, did you prime or just apply a finish coat of the same color as the siding?
Thanks.
Doug
runnerguy and diesel.....( and all the ships at sea )...
depending on what the owners want....i take a sample of the pre-finished to my paint supplier...(usually Ben Moore)... and they do a computer match with a 100% acrylic
at that point we can even change the color if we want
i'm pretty sure the Hardie warranty is voided by my overcoat... and i explain that to my customers..
but i feel that the joints all have to be caulked ... and one paint surface has to lap the other ..and there has to be a field coat of finish.....or it will look patchy...
so our sequence will be :
primed trim.. and all trim cuts edge primed as we install
install hardie... use alum coil stock slips at the joints
apply color-match caulk
field apply a second finish coat to the hardie, lapping onto the trim
cut in the trim with two coats finish
OR... pre-paint the first coat of trim before we install... and only cut in the final coat
we don't reprime the hardie.....i think the hardie is a 100% acrylic ...so we get a good bond with our 100% acrylic finishMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike!
Doug
We used it....no complaints. It even sat, covered, for two years without issue, although it's not recommended.
It needs to be handled carefully when carrying, cutting, installing, etc., as the paint does chip and scratch easily. Of course, it can be easily touched up after, but you might as well avoid the hassle.
Scott.
as the paint does chip and scratch easily
This is interesting to me as I didn't find that to be the case at all. I expected it to chip and scratch easily, but was surprised at how durable it was when we actually got to installing it. I wonder if it has anything to do with it sitting around before it was installed? And if that's the case, I wonder if it damages easily a couple years down the road?View Image
>>> I wonder if it has anything to do with it sitting around before it was installed? And if that's the case, I wonder if it damages easily a couple years down the road?Good question, I don't know. Now that it's hung I suspect the paint will behave much the same as any other paint.I suppose it could also vary amoung paint manufacturers/appliers. This was Weiss.
I always use prime and paint. I get a smoother caulk joint at corners and window trims. I also face nail the siding. To me, hardie looks good on 1 story homes blind nailed but when it's face nailed on 3 story the sidewall shows too much gap on the laps when looking up at the wall. never liked using a paint brush while i'm nailing anything, I do however butter up the butt joints with solarseal over flashing.
Edited 11/30/2009 10:43 pm ET by shellbuilder
Mike-
Thanks for the info about your painting procedure. One question though- what sheen does Benjamin Moore use when matching factory painted Hardie?
-BK
I don't know... since we're doing a full overcoat we choose the sheen we wantMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hi. I am just finishing my house (3/4 cape)with ColorPlus in the Mountain Sage color. 319 sticks,(5-inch reveal) which came in nearly exactly what the HardiPlank estimator guided. I used two touch-up kits, which include a pen, and a shoe polish-like dispenser in each kit. My observations in retrospect.
Handling:
- Not that difficult to keep clean, so worth getting the pre-painted. The finish is really nice. Mountain Sage is a beautiful color. Each board is covered with thin plastic sheet on the painted side. Don't remove until you are nailing.
- Keep the stack dry at all times, even the cutoffs that you will use later. The cement absorbs moisture.
- We used the PacTool SA903 siding gauges. Worked great. They stick well and never fell off.
- Also have a pair of SoloSider gauges. Not appropriate, would not recommend unless you are working solo. Even then not sure what advantage they provide.
- Used premade flashing for butt joints. You will find in the FHB article mentioned earlier in your thread. I used 2 boxes of 50, then we probably had to hand-cut another 30 pieces out of PVC coil. They are not cheap, but worth the convenience. So in total 130 pieces of butt flashing for 320 sticks.
Paint:
- There will be nicks and nailheads to paint. The touchup kits matched the color exactly, but they are expensive. Lowe's can match the colorplus color, so we used a quart of the Valspar paint from Lowes to paint edges, and then saved the touchup kits for the nicks and nailheads. Good system..10 bucks a quart for Valspar, vs. 35 bucks for 2 oz. touchup kit. The color is nearly identical, but the Valspar finish does not exactly match the 'baked-on' finish. It's a hair flatter.
Installation:
- No caulk anywhere. We rabbet the back of AZEK window casing and corner boards and slide the siding behind. Al windows and corners flashed with PVC coil.
- Went through 2 blades on compound miter saw, and two on circular saw.
- We used stainless nails throughout.
Pricing:
First 280 pieces: $7.77 each.
Last 40 pieces - paid about $8.05-$8.20 each, in two batches. (I didn't want to need to return any.)
Delivery - Took about 3.5 weeks for first order, from factory. Second and third lots took 3 days, coming through a distributor.
Happy to answer any questions.
Just curious did you use smooth or embossed wood grain?Probably shouldn't ask because it will start a firestorm of which looks best. I like the embossed but my paint lady thinks it looks cheap.
I've used both.
My own is wood grain. Another job was smooth. They both have their applications.
I used CedarMill. It has a faux cedar finish, meaning raised grain. My neighbor has the smooth on the lower part of their house, and shake on the top. with a 40' setback from the sidewalk, its hard to tell the difference to most humans. But the Cedarmill grain does provide some additional shadowline, at least in darker colors. We have another neighbor down the road who did a dark brown finish on the smooth, and it looks fantastic. I just prefer the effect of light on the Cedarmill. Happy to send you a pic if you want to see Mountain Sage.
Could you give me more detail on how you built out the Azek corners?You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Yes, it was relatively simple. We used pre-made Azek 5/4 corners, and routed a dado on each side of the corner with a large slot bit. Probably 1.5 inches in from each edge. The thickness of the rout is determined by the absolute thickness of the siding to be covered. YOu want the finished corner to be flush with the proud edge of the siding. Each corner was flashed with PVC coil to about 8 inches on each side of the corner. The elimination of caulk on the house is a huge time saver. We put a garden hose on the first corner back in October when we started, as we were testing this system with both corners and window trim. I am quite comfortable that it is waterproof.Also important to note that all Azek we used was 5/4. Also, we did all flashing in aluminum, and did not use Vycor. The builder is paranoid about that material with Azek, as there is little evidence of what happens when it melts behind PVC.Bond & Fill 2 part epoxy glue. Its expensive ($35/cartridge in NJ), but well worth it. We started with standard Azek glue. It's a mess, harder to work with (longer setting time), and difficult to clean. I figured out that a spray bottle with acetone and a rag was the best method of cleaning Azek after glueing. Highly recommend the spray bottle.On the chimney corners we trimmed with Azek on the siding face only, using resawn 5/4. Basically ripped the boards in half. We bent the aluminum 90 degrees into a slot in the brick created with a standard masonry blade on a skilsaw. Brown SolarSeal in the brick slot, then jam the aluminum into the slot. The bends were the minimum that a 12' brake could handle. Then the resawn Azek over the siding. I picked a 2" width on that trim.If you are new to Azek, highly recommend using smooth rather than grained. The grained product picks up mold and dirt like a magnet.Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
Brendan
Thanks!You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Hardi color plus prefinish
I have a client with a sample from the local supplier. She believes it to be a semi gloss sheen. I have searched the Hardie site and cant find a descriotion of the finish sheen.
Can anyone tell me if its a low sheen, flat, or ????????
Why?
How could words better describe the sheen than an actual sample? If you have a client with an actual sample, then have that client sign off on it as your approved selection.