Replies

1. 
   EricPaulson | Apr 01, 2007 04:17am | #1

   Unless you are subbing this job out to the guy who wrote the book, and adding in your mark-up, you had better get a phone, a pencil, some paper and a calculator going or you may wind up in big trouble.

   [email protected]

    

    

    

    

2. 
   Piffin | Apr 01, 2007 05:26am | #2

   means has always seemed more oriented to commecial work IMO.
   It is hard ti use and there are always modifiers for any system for things like site access, materials handling, existing conditions, locality and quality of materials. The sand base probably means that it is already in place or that there is another cost item for that.

   You really have to know what you are doing and know how the whole book works. You will bankrupt yourself if you are just going to pick up a book, flip to the one page and take an item to price a job

   Have you ever done this before?
   Will you be subbing it out?

    

    

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   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
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3. 
   Abm | Apr 01, 2007 06:37am | #3

   That price seems pretty low to me, especially if it's any kind of design that has to be laid out or includes frequent cuts.

4. 
   Piffin | Apr 01, 2007 07:32am | #4

   OK, Just for giggles, I looked into my estimating program and found this at 13.13 to 14.47 for on 2" of pounded sand.
   Any more fill and base is extra.
   That is just to install with materials, does not include hauling it around to the back or cleanup
   Does not include markup, overhead, profit.
   I'm also thinking that for such a small space there should be a percentage upcharge. you can't do 200 feet for the same price as 2000 feet!

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

5. 
   Piffin | Apr 01, 2007 07:33am | #5

   here is another thought to consider - how old is that book and what recommendations does it make for inflation considerations?

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

6. 
   Oak River Mike | Apr 01, 2007 03:54pm | #6

   red,

   We have tried to use all the latest Means books for both res. and commercial and they are always off in both directions high and low.  If we price out an addition using them, they are always too high to get the job.  If we price estimate just a slab, they are low because the concrete guy wants to use a pump instead of trying to back the truck up to the forms and theres another $500. no one considered.

   I have a few of the means books that sit comfortably on my shelves with absolutley no real value other than a great ballpark to show homeowners so they don't think I'm nuts when I tell them what its costs to build something.

   Just my two cents of course

   Mike

7. 
   vintage1 | Apr 01, 2007 08:09pm | #7

   red,

   I have used RS means in a previous job for commercial work.  Even in the commercial side, we found it to be way too low for the job at hand. 

   At least five years ago, there didn't seem to be any way to factor in the difficulty of the job.  In other words, your patio job might be fine in a new development with easy access, but what about the one for the house on the hill side that will require all materials to be hand delivered to the back of the house cause you can't get a truck or fork anywhere close?

   In short, don't use Means as the only method to price your job, there are too many other variables involved.

    

    

8. 
   rpait | Apr 10, 2007 01:01pm | #8

   down here in Fla I use it to estimate only. I use the contractors pricing guide though and always buy an updated copy each year. What I like about it is it gives productivity measurements. How much tile per hour should go down etc. For me being relatively new to the business and not yet having alot of overhead it has worked out great! I work under the time and materials style though. I too have found it is often the lowest bid. Everyone else is correct too in that if you dont know enough to include the extras then you will definately cut yourself short cost wise. Thats where T&M has saved me. I also emphasize my experience and that its an "estimate"! Most people I work for have gotten other bids so they know about where to expect the cost to be. I save em a couple of hundred dollars, I get paid for the work I do and I make a decent wage in the process. Where I succeed is in referrals. Do quality work and the referral and experience will make up for it in the end even if you shorted yourself on the initial job. Just learn from it.