I don’t know what to do. I am currently employed at a small architectural office. At the moment, it is just me and my boss. My position right now is project coordinator. I have been working there two years full time since I graduated college.
For many reasons, I have decided to move on and look for another job. The biggest reason is that I want to make a slight carrer shift, from the architectural end of things to work for a general contractor. I have got loads of valuable experience in my small office position but I am not seeing it as the best situation for my future.
I have begun getting my resume out there and some opportunities are starting to pop up and one of things I’m looking at now is how to go about getting my professional references squared away. There are plenty of consulting engineers, builders, and clients who I am sure are willing to give me a good reference, but I am not sure if I am entitled to confront any of them and ask for it without my bosses knowledge.
My boss is a nice guy and I want to do right by him but I feel like it’s too early in the game for me to go letting him know I’m looking for another job. It may make for a very uncomfortable work situation if he decides to take it personally. I also want to make sure that I always am able to keep my good reference with him as well.
Does anyone have any advice for me. It seems like all I’m hearing from the people who know me is that I should do what I need to do, and that there is no easy way to go about this. I welcome any opinion, and understand, I’m not trying to screw anyone over, I just want out. Right now, I’m realizing that quitting my job is more diffucult than breaking up with a girl when you feel really bad about it.
I need wisdom and experience to guide me here folks.
Replies
If he's any kind of decent guy at all, you have to tell him. And there's no apologetic waxing here, what you just said - variety of reasons, broadening your horizons, think, for better or worse, you want to wear a different set of shoes.
The worst thing you can do to that relationship is blindside him. Its so much harder for him to get upset if you're forthcoming. I always felt like the best thing for one of my troops (insert title here - employee, subordinate, whatever) to do when something might hack me off was be the guy to tell me. That's worlds better than hearing it from a 3rd party. And I took that stance with my bosses. If I really gorked it up, I was always the first to raise my hand and say "that'd be me."
Which isnt to say that he will be miffed but your reluctance to tell him makes me think you think he will be.
So sit down over a cup of joe. Tell him. Heck, ask for his inputs and assistance, and make it a two way street. How can you help him be sure that your leaving isnt at a completely miserable time for the business? Can you assist in finding or even training a replacement? Maybe he'll help you move on. Don't burn bridges unless you have to. Man I've fried a bunch of those that I wish I'd had more foresight on. Live and learn.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
RW,
Thanks for the good advice.
Just wanted to let people know that I sat down with my boss at the end of the day yesterday and had what I had requested to be a 30 minute meeting. The meeting ended up lasting 2 hours. I said my piece about thinking about my future and all and what I had been thinking and why and asked what he thought. He acted excited to hear it! He talked about how he had been thinking about dabbling a bit more in investment projects with the buisness and how he had been worried I would be offended or upset it he asked me to get away from the drawing a little and get into full time field supervision of the projects. I expressed some excitement with this, but also was sure to stress that If I decided that more large scale commercial was what I was hankering for that I would make sure to keep him in the loop so he would have time to get my replacement squared away. I also asked for his blessing on getting references.
That was the first half hour, then he spent the next hour and a half talking about the many positions he held before getting to where he is today, his mistakes and his good decisions, and we shared some laughs. Then, I went home and slept like a baby. He is, after all, a really nice guy.
Thanks again for the help
Edited 11/7/2006 10:20 pm ET by xosder11
OUTSTANDING!!!!!Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Sounds like a good, adult conversation. Glad it worked out that well for you.
From the way you described the boss, I'm not surprised how he reacted, even disregarding his thoughts about branching out. He sounded like a good guy. Do right by him.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
Congratulatons. Thanks for coming back and telling us how it worked out.
Yeah, glad you caught that. Your advice was helpful.
Don't you hate when people never come back to tell you how things worked out? I diddn't want to leave you guys hanging.
Think of yourself as the CEO of your own career.
Professionals in all fields change jobs, move, and even work for the competition on occation. It isn't a new concept but in any industry there are a wide variety of responses to the anouncement of a move. Some are supportive and others are focused on mimizing the damage (meaning you may be immediately locked out of any sensitive information that you might take with you to the competition).
Until you've actually spilled the beans there's no real way to predict what the response will be. Some people just don't handle it well, despite how well you get along with them now. That's simply human nature and you need to take basic steps to protect yourself in the process.
Solidify your long-term goals and make sure this move has a high likelihood of producing the benefits you think it will. The easiest way to recover from a bad move is to not make the move in the first place.
You don't have a responsibility to tell your employer you're considering a move until it's certain so don't think you're doing him a favor and end up unemployed.
If you're going to make the move get your ducks in a row and keep your networking files up to date. Get a firm offer before telling your present employer.
As for refferences approach the ones you feel will be reseptive and ask if they will be a good reference if you have a good opportunity with another firm. If you don't want them to bring it up with your boss, ask to keep it confidential. Most will, some will not.
In the end you're the only one responsible for managing your career and as such there are difficult decisions to be made, but that's life. Treat your career as a business unto itself and you're the CEO. Improve your product, market your product, solve clients' problems and take your career in the direction of your choice.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I will choose to follow my gut and regret it only if I must, rather than not and regret it always.
xosder11,
if you are gonna ask for advice---at least consider listening to it( if not actually following it)
don't just ignore the advice you dislike because it doesn't fit in with what you have already determined you WANT to do.
a few years down the road----when you actually KNOW what you are doing---you may find yourself saying" Oh, THAT'S what maveric meant !"
Best wishes,Stephen
In 10 years you'll look back on the career moves you've made and it will be clear whether a move was reactionary and defensive (usually bad), or assurtive and for the betterment of your career.
As the years go by you'll see many of those around you flurish or flouder based on how proactive they are.
It's impossible for any of us to know if this is good or bad for you, but in this type of advice there is always a huge emphasis on doing the right thing in case you are the mythilogical person teatering on the fense as likely to be a mover and shaker as to fall to the dark side. Our arguements won't change what's inside you.
Best of luck
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
See response above.
It went well. Thanks for the help.
That's great!
My posts are usually a bit pesimistic when it comes to these things, not because it usually turns out bad, simply because it can. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. :-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
My primary job is in education, and because I didnt duck quick enough I found my self in the position of shop steward for the union. We have a stack of young teachers, and many (about 1-3 a year) find a different position that better meets their needs. Even though they have signed a contract, they can only be held to 60 days (conversely the district only is obliged to pay them for 60 days after they state they are leaving)...
Having said all that, I counsel all of folks who are leaving before June to disclose the information as soon as possible, so that the school is not left in a lurch, and there is as little disruption for the kids as possible.
If you are in a really small firm, departing suddenly or as a surprise could leave your boss in a real lurch. By making the boss aware, you can leave on better terms and help ease the transition so when folks call for refrences you won't get black balled....
Sadly, it is never easy, even if it is the best thing for you!
Good luck
Sounds like you like your boss, or at least don't want to screw him over.
Sit down & tell him the story, you're wanting to move into a different aspect of the building process.
The truth will set you free, maybe he'll sheetcan you on the spot.
Maybe not, but don't leave him hung out to dry by just up and leaving without enough time to replace you.
Been there, on his end. It isn't good.
Joe H
One thing that stands out is 2 years out of college and you think you've got "loads of valuable experience". you're just an apprentice and you will be for some years to come.
your professional contacts are fairly new, thats the reason you feel insecure about approaching them for references.
every professional should have long term goals and I'm sure if you shared those goals with your present employer he would be willing to assist a valuable employee with their career aspirations
for now you should hang in there and actually aquire some valuable experience
Wow,
I couldn't have asked for better responces. Views from both sides of the coin is exactly what I was hoping for.
"for now you should hang in there and actually aquire some valuable experience"
Why? I already know I don't want to be there. Why should I stay for any longer than I have to? That doesn't make sense to me.
Edited 10/22/2006 1:13 am ET by xosder11
That's a generational response. For older guys, we don't view changing jobs the same as changing shirts. We established relationships and gave loyalty to the people who were kind enough to give us a pay check.
But attitudes change, and younger people today move around much more often, with loyalty being a quaint, old-fashioned concept. Of course, when this happens, the back side is that there's no loyalty toward younger workers.
You're gonna do what you want regardless, which is fine. Two years isn't much, but you'll only see that after ten years or twenty years. I know it feels like a lifetime for you now, but we have all seen guys who think they know everything at 2 years realize how little they knew, or understood, as the grew up. And this is what people are trying to tell you.
The only advice I can offer is to make sure you head down a road you really want to be on, because one day you're gonna find yourself in a job, position or business and realize that instead of heading up the hill, you're heading down. Make sure that you don't look back and wonder how you missed out on what you really want to do because you thought there would always be time to get it right.
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
>>Why should I stay for any longer than I have to? That doesn't make sense to me.
perception is reality. you sound like a greenhorn. try setting realistic goals. bring your current boss into the fold, he's been around a while. you need to view him as an asset to your career, not a detriment
your first post asked how to ethically collect letters of reccommendation from HIS clients. my opinion is you dont deserve them yet, buts that just my opinion
if you want to get those letters slightly on the sly, tell everyone you need them because you're going to take some courses to further your education, that should do it
just a background:
2 years with one medium-sized architectural firm (laid off but a good relationship, have since been asked to come back twice)
2 years with a small firm ( former contractor-turned-architect, left on excellent terms)
4 years with a medium-sized firm (left for a great opportunity)
1 year with a large a/e firm (great opportunity bombed, laid off)
2 years with a large firm (laid off)
3 years/current with a non-profit design organization
The point to all of this . . . i have no idea. I've seen your posts in the last year however, and feel like i've been in your position. A lot of good responses here, all of them valid. I guess my own experience comes down to two pieces of advice: 1) hang in there, finish your IDP, get your registration out of the way, and then have the freedom to do what you want, and 2) find out what you want, then do it.
You've put in a lot of time and bother getting to where you are, so finish with it. Have something you can fall back on. You're too %$#*& young right now, and you think you know everything. Just in case you don't, have a safety net ready. To pay for the realities of life, i.e., student loans, car payments, a mortgage, daycare, credit card bills, etc., and you'll need something in case your dreams turn into, well, dreams. And find something about architecture that you like. If you don't like what you're doing, approach it from another angle. It's not all one direction. Going to another firm is not the worst thing in the world, and trying other options is simply smart. If you like historical rehab, do it. If you like cutting-edge design, enter competitions. If you're into the construction side, hook up with a builder (plenty of opportunities for estimating, project managing, etc.). But finish reading the chapter first. It's a lot easier to change your mind down the road than it is to re-change it. Keep an option open.
And secondly, it's your life. Find out what you want and do it. Easier said than done, but do it just the same. For the first time since I graduated with an arch degree, i'm working for a place that isn't a firm and am loving it. i look forward to going to work. I don't pull all-nighters or work weekends, i see my kids on their birthdays, i have holidays, and i don't feel a fricking bit guilty about it. And the work is something i'd do for free if i could. Many of the contractors here have said similar things about what they do, and there's no feeling like it in the world. Once you find it, grab on.
potentially worthless advice, but it's what Ã'm good at :). good luck
>for now you should hang in there and actually aquire some valuable experienceWhat if the experience he'd be getting isn't relevant to what he wants to be doing? He's working in an Arch office, whereas he wants to GC. Two more years in the Arch office will provide him with how much more GC-ish experience?My advice...know what you want, approach your boss with it honorably and maybe he'll help you form a strategy for getting there, and have a plan B in case he takes it badly. Plan B should include some cash reserves.
You don't say what your training is..... If you're an architect, there's a real value in hanging in to get licensed before moving on. I know too many who got the itch for the construction side and later, couldn't get design firms to hire them -- too far out of school.
On the other hand, like several others have said, you're your own captain, its a tough world, and you have to be selfish.
Good luck!
I think you should let him know that you're looking for another job, "not because you're not a great boss or this isn't a great place to work", but because you feel the need to branch out. Be fairly non-specific about how far along in the "looking" you are.
Emphasize the "I think you should know" aspect. Ask him how much he'd like to be kept "in the loop". Assure him you'll give him adequate warning when you have something definite (and make prospective employers aware of this requirement).
I suspect that he's already aware that you're getting restless.
Lots of good advice here. "The truth will set you free." I'm not a builder - I'm on this site because I'm a DIY who gets great advice here. I am an organizational consultant/coach..etc.
I'd like you to go back and for yourself define the problem. - Your solution is to change jobs. There are things that are bugging you about your current job.
You owe it to yourself and your boss (who hired you when you were very green, remember) to sit down with him and have a discussion. Maybe he'll listen, maybe he won't, but you can start by honoring the fact that he has employed you for two years and that because of that you are in a different place now. Tell him what's bothering you - tell him that on your own you thought you needed to leave - but that you are interested in hearing what he has to say. Maybe you'll work out a new job for you - maybe he doesn't have that. But you ABSOLUTELY want to leave that job with his blessing - all your contacts are his and you doen't want to be known as someone who dumped him. You want him to be a reference for the next 15 years. The world is a small place.
Good luck. We'll all want to know what happened.
I think it should be noted here that two years is a fairly common length for a first job, even among the older crowd that didn't do much "job hopping". At that point you've got a little more confidence, a little more money, have a better idea of what you like and don't like, and a better feel for what's out there.I'd be surprised if the boss wasn't also aware of this fact, and the fact that in a small shop a fresh college hire can grow out of the job in that period of time.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I want to keep thanking everyone for the great advice. Believe me, I know I have a lot to learn, and if I thought I knew everything, I wouldn't have asked for help. Thanks for the support.
Edit: message intended for ALL
Edited 10/22/2006 11:39 am ET by xosder11
See my response above.
Thanks again
I have heard of a lotta people giveing there notice and being fired right away, The old rules was give notice, but the new law of the jungle is fire you. not saying this will happen to you just saying ya gotta think about this stuff nowadays, My advice would be to get your reference soon.
In a big company I wouldn't advocate giving so much advanced warning, but with this small outfit, and an apparently good relationship with the boss, I think it's proper. The boss will probably even give a good reference, if he's treated with respect.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
xosder11 This is the boss, do you think you're the only one in this office that visits this Fine Homebuilding discussion page? I want to see you in my office... now! Change is coming sooner rather than later!
Hey boss, do you really call him xosder11 at the office? And by the way, what happened to xosder 1 thru 10?
You don't say what your degree is in. While it was mentioned earlier, if your degree was in architecture, I would look very carefully at whether staying another year, say, would make a difference in being able to qualify for architectural registration, which could give you far more flexibility in the future.
As was also mentioned before, a year seems like a long time at your age, but in hindsight, is hardly anything. Two years of experience in an architect's office is about at the point where you are just STARTING to understand things in a useful way (regardless of how smart/experienced you think you are.)
You could also encourage your employer to give you more time in the field. I would also encourage you to do some informational interviews at construction companies. You might find that those who are already doing your dream job are actually dreaming about YOURS! If you are hankering for larger construction projects, it might be that working in a larger architectural office that does some heavy-duty construction management would be a good next step, and would give you far more credibility with a general contractor if you decide to make that move.
R.
It sounds to me that at this point in your career, you need to gain more experience in the field. Going out into the field and seeing the construction going on and talking with the crews in the field will not only expand your knowledge in a practical sense you may start up some contacts on the small simple scale. That'll build up your confidence to make the jump. When you feel you're ready, sit down and talk with your boss. If he's a good guy, he'll understand your hunger to try it on your own. If he's a good guy, he could be a good source for leads on jobs that are too small for him. If he's a good guy, he'll take you back if you don't succeed. If he's not a good guy, you've gained more experience and more contacts.
That's a good point. If the OP should decide to come back to being an archy eventually, some real construction experience will make him a much better one.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I would be in line with RW's first post.
I would make a sort of life career / business plan prior to talks, such that you know where you intend to go, and can explain why you need a change that will better support your goals. The truth is the best option. I would think maintianing your relationship with your currnet boss is a very important issue.
Regarding references, I would ask his permission to use specific references, otherwise I would think they could be used in a general sense, without reference to names and project contacts.
Guys, thanks again for the advice. It is helping more than you know. I have been discussing this with so many different people, and for one of the only times I can remember, the answer of what to do is so out of focus.
If it's out of focus you're standing too close or too far away. Adjust your perspective and come at it again.
Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle. --Mahatma Gandhi
Dan H,
"adjust your perspective and come at it again"
not that I learned it from YOU( LOL)--- but that actually sums up one of the 3 or 4 most important things i have learned since i started wasting my time here on Breaktime -8-9 years ago.
had an excellent example just last night-----searching the " Knots" site
I am in the planning process of building a special music stand for a special musician---------and have been having a kind of " block" meshing my main concept with the standard music stand form
anyhow---via the " knots" site I came across http://www.chbecksvoort.com------------ with some examples of music stands----POW----WHAM---right upside the head LOL
realized I had been viewing the solution to a standard technical problem from only one perspective---- but after seeing stands from a different perspective it was INSTANTLY clear there are endless solutions and possibilites to that technical problem
and on a personal level---just about every conflict i have been a part of could probably have been easier to resolve--if i was mentally able to walk around the situation and look at it from the other guys side of the table( change perspective).
you had a really great summation there Dan.
Best wishes all, Stephen
I don't know if this has been addressed or not, but many times people leave a job with the idea that the new job will be their last one. The new job looks really great (the grass is greener over there).They take the job and it works out or maybe it doesn't.Anyway, people burn bridges. Whatever you do, you will probably need a reference from your current boss at some time in the future. You need to keep that in mind.My other comment is I've been around your situation many times over the years. I've been in your shoes and I've had many friends and family etc in your situation.I've talked to people who were leaving a job or they were describing why they left their last job and their reasons just sound "flakey".In other words they tell me why they're leaving and I scratch my head and say "what is this guy talking about".If you're leaving the job to make more money elsewhere, why not just say so.^^^^^^
S N A F U (Situation Normal: All Fouled Up)
Mr. Fix,
Not about the money so much...yet. I'm not married, have no kids, and my rent is dirt cheap. As long as there is noney for take out and beer in the fridge, and a little extra to spend on the special lady on the weekend, I am a happy guy. My reasons are solid, and that's a whole other thread. I could write a book about teh pro's and con's of working for a small shop. I have been happy to get the experience I have. I have been mulling this over for some time. The time just seems right.
I've done some job hopping in corporate america. It has always worked to let my prospective employer know that my current boss did not know I was looking, and the decision would need to rest on my interview and their impression of my skills. You don't even need to be that forthright - you just tell them your current boss doesn't know, and they can connect the dots. It always worked - people understand because they will be in the same position one day.
Be straight with him once you have the new job. I have worked in a small firm for a guy I truly admired. At the end of the day, he needs to get moving on your replacement and doesn't want to wait around for months while you are out pounding the pavement looking for the 'right opportunity'. He needs to train the new worker, and the sooner the better. Why should he show you any loyalty once you've spilled the beans? He'd be smart to cut bait and cast a new line.