Replies

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 03, 2003 05:45am | #1

   I don't see anything in your message to indicate that the opportunity that is offerred is awesome. I do see indications that you're expecting people to work for scenery and history instead of money.

   If the labor force is very shallow, it's a sign from Ghod that you're not paying enough.

1. 
   kimfisch | Feb 03, 2003 04:25pm | #2

    

   Uncle Dunc,

   It's too bad that you have nothing better to do than to make smartass comebacks to serious issues.  In response to your comments, I offer the following:

   1)  The "ad" as you call it certainly does not explain all reasons for the opportunity being awesome.  I'm a project manager myself.  My talents lie building, not in painting a glowing picture of the opportunity presented.

   2) Money is an important part of any job.  But circumstances & opportunity are equally important.  At least to me.  If anyone out there is only interested in the money, then please do not respond.

   3)  The entire compensation package is comparable to other areas of the country.  The scenary & history benefits are just bonuses.

   4)  The shallow work force is an indication of the rural nature of this area, & has no connection at all with the amount of pay.  There is simply not enough population here to support the work we have.

   5)  Please use spell check when you refer to "God".  It is not spelled "Ghod".

   Thanks,

   Kim Fischer

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 03, 2003 05:35pm | #3

   >> ... smartass comebacks to serious issues.

   Since you took the trouble to respond, I'll assume you found my arguments serious enough to require a response, and used "smartass" simply as a term of abuse.

   >> The "ad" as you call it ...

   What else should I call it. If you're advertising for a project manager, it's an ad.

   >> ... certainly does not explain all reasons for the opportunity being awesome.

   It doesn't explain ANY reasons for the opportunity being awesome.

   >> ... not in painting a glowing picture of the opportunity presented.

   A glowing picture would be a lot to ask for. I'd settle for a picture of something identifiable. I don't see any opportunity at all in your description, good, bad, or indifferent.

   >> Money is an important part of any job. But circumstances & opportunity are

   >> equally important.

   The flood of responses you got clearly indicates how many people agree with you.

   >> The entire compensation package is comparable to other areas of the country.

   I doubt it, but if it's true, you might have gotten more responses by saying that up front.

   >> There is simply not enough population here to support the work we have.

   That's true, and in the midst of record high unemployment nationwide, the fact that no one will move there to work for you, or even inquire about working for you, means you're not offering enough money, or opportunity, or circumstances, or history, or scenery, or something. Probably money.

   >> Please use spell check when you refer to "God". It is not spelled "Ghod".

   Please don't correct my spelling. I didn't spell it that way by accident. And even if I had, your own spelling isn't good enough to justify you criticizing mine.

1. 
   SWAYBRACE | Feb 14, 2003 05:15am | #24

   MR.Uncle Dunc,

     I would like to comment on your response to KIM in regards to her placing an "ad" on this web page.

   I am sorry you felt the need to ridicule her on posting  the Project Manager position with her firm,  I personally thought the existance of this forum was to help one and other out when we had a QUESTION OR PROBLEM. It is a safe assumption you don't feel the same way. If you would please refrain yourself from the better than you attiude you might find the world could be on your side. I know, I didn't vote you the spoke person for jobless. Someone living in small town USA, might just, just might , have you, see the posting and reply. If I was not employed already It could be a good lead or if luck would have it fifteen years good. Are you the type of man that would discourge a fellow man for bettering his life in spite of the views you seem to hold of yourself.?(ghod wouldn't).  Or are you the man who won't work because his employer can't guarantee your position untill you retire. The trades are a crap shoot, you do your best and work hard and hope your employer pays you on time and dosen't file Chapter 7. (the stories exist). Why do yourself a good deed and aplologize to KIM WHEN YOU CAN GO TO BED THINKING I ONCE AGAIN PROVED TO EVERYONE READING BREAKTIME THAT I AM GHOD.

    THANK -YOU  DSWAYBRACE

   Edited 2/13/2003 9:22:05 PM ET by GORDY

   Edited 2/13/2003 9:26:37 PM ET by GORDY

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 14, 2003 07:25am | #26

   >> I would like to comment on your response to KIM in regards to her ...

   Why do assume that KIM is a her? I've known more guys named Kim than I have known women project managers for construction management companies.

   >> ... placing an "ad" on this web page.

   Why "ad" in quotes? Like I asked Kim. It's a message in a help wanted folder advertising for a project manager. If I shouldn't call it an ad, what should I call it. I wasn't using ad as a term of abuse, just a descriptive word. Nor did I object to the message, whatever you call it, being posted here. That's exactly what this folder is for.

   >> I am sorry you felt the need to ridicule her on posting the Project Manager position ...

   I went back and re-read both of my posts. I don't see anything in them that looks like ridicule. You probably think I'm ridiculing you too.

   >> I personally thought the existance of this forum was to help one and other out when

   >> we had a QUESTION OR PROBLEM. It is a safe assumption you don't feel the same way.

   It is not a safe assumption. I post information and answer questions here when I have something to add, and it's often useful enough that I get a thank you. I'm fairly confident that my net contribution is positive.

   >> Are you the type of man that would discourge a fellow man for bettering his life ...

   Again, I re-read my posts and don't see anything in either of them that would discourage anyone who was interested in the job. I could argue that it was the wording of Kim's original message that discouraged anyone from responding to it. I could even argue that it was my responses, which provoked the posting of more information, that ended up attracting the potential job seekers who did finally show up.

   >> Or are you the man who won't work because his employer can't guarantee your

   >> position untill you retire.

   I know very well there's no such guarantee. My most recent employer let me go about six weeks before filing Ch. 11.

   >> I personally thought the existance of this forum was to help one and other out ...

   I agree. So who exactly are you helping out by dedicating your very first post to beating me up for two posts that were, at worst, misdemeanors?

   Edited 2/14/2003 12:26:17 AM ET by Uncle Dunc

2. 
   skipj | Feb 08, 2003 12:47pm | #4

   Sorry to hear that candidates wanting 'only money' will be excluded.

   I'm completely qualified, but, sadly, I WORK FOR MONEY.

1. 
   PeteKoski | Feb 08, 2003 03:33pm | #5

   Geez, your offer sounded attractive to me and had I been interested in moving I woulda called you.  Sorry you got jumped on. 

    

    

2. 
   wwilmer | Feb 08, 2003 06:14pm | #6

   Why all the abuse fellas?  Give her a chance.  Kim, what does a residential project manager in WVA make and what other benefits does your company offer?  A range would be fine.  Let us know.  Thanks.

3. 
   Brudoggie | Feb 09, 2003 12:03am | #7

   Too bad you're not in the Midwest. I'd have a great candidate for that position. I'll pass it along anyway, but I doubt he wants to move there. Good luck. As for the other comments you've recieved, maybe you could do better by putting more bait on the hook, so to speak. More information.

    Brudoggie

4. 
   kimfisch | Feb 10, 2003 05:34pm | #8

   All,

   There have been several comments concerning the compensation package & a job description.  Here is my reply:

   1) I will not post income ranges for everyone in the world to see as I believe these are subjects that are between the candidate & our company.  I will say that our benefit package includes paid vacation & health insurance, at no deduction from the paycheck. 

   2)  A long responsibility list, in no particular order, follows:

   bridge the gap between the Owner, Architect, & Contractor by understanding, advocating, & communicating the Owner's requirements

   communicate via clearly defined goals, organized Contract Documents, & cooperation amongst the team players

   manage the Project in accordance with the Budget, Schedule, & Contract Documents

   support, guide, & protect the Owner's investment in agreements with contractors & vendors thruout the construction process

   focus is to be a driver of the work, not a monitor

   daily inspection

   layout all work with onsite builder

   order material

   coordinate material deliveries

   daily supervision of all subcontractors

   inspect all phases of the work

   direct the subcontractors to follow the schedule

   prepare punchlist

   prepare schedule

   buyout log

   negotiate subcontracts

   setup coordination meeting with all subs prior to start

   organize material purchase with respect to availability & lead time

   daily interaction with onsite builder

   daily issue resolution with Owner, Arch, & onsite builder

   budget adherence

   material selections & cost changes to Owner

   prepare Owner change orders & give to OA

   prepare subcontractor change orders & give to OA

   update job cost reports for Owner

   review, code,  & approve invoices

   Please contact me if you are interested.

   Thanks,

   Mr. Kim Fischer

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Feb 10, 2003 07:17pm | #9

   I appreciate your reluctance to post a salary number, but how about a clue?  Can you tell what a lead carpenter or superintendent would expect to make in your area, and will this position probably pay a little more? 

    

   Do it right, or do it twice.

2. 
   bd342 | Feb 11, 2003 12:59am | #10

   I'm not familiar with the West Virginia area and so have no idea at all what the going rate is.

   You are posting in a forum that is reaching well beyond that immediate area and it is only natural for prospective employees to want to know what the range is... Do you really expect to attract quality people solely on the basis of nice big houses in a beautiful (desolate?) area?

   By the way I suspect that rural W. Virginia might be well under the national average on pay rates and I'm sure I'm not alone on this assumption. If you want some good people to respond then please be a little more forthcoming.

   Good Luck!

1. 
   Peg_Head | Feb 11, 2003 02:12am | #11

   Allow me to help.

   I reviewed that post and saw the bait right away...but that's another story.

   Given the Handsome List responsibilities....I mean "cell phone on the hip all the time" responsibilities, and the fact you would probably trade the best, most productive years of your life working (at least thinking) with the job, I'd say you you can't pay enough.  I've worked for big dollar clients on Mc Mansions...they expect a lot. So Kim is right....it's not ONLY for the money, you have to love it. After all, your gonna PAY dearly for it out of your hide. The wage should be sufficient to support a nice lifestyle for you and your family (home, car, dinner out) with EXTRA for a retirement savings plan. (for when your whooped) That said, perhaps she can reconsider her presentation.

   Because in the end, if the developer is "900 Pound Gorilla Incorporated"  he'll flick you off the table like yesterdays newspaper when it's over and you'll have paid him with the best years of your life.

   And he'll have given you money.

   Choose Wisely.

3. 
   kimfisch | Feb 11, 2003 05:13am | #14

   To All Interested Parties,

   It seems we are all interested in discussing this job posting for different reasons.  My reason, & the only one that matters to me, is to find a person who fits in with our company.  While I would not mind discussing these various tangents if I had the time, the fact remains that I do not have the time.  Hence the need to fill this position.

   As I stated before, the range of compensation is private, & will not be discussed online.  As "bait", I will say that I relocated to WV from Atlanta, & my entire compensation package exceeds the last position I held in Atlanta.

   If anyone is truly interested in more information, then please contact me:

   [email protected]

   office #: 304-536-7769

   cell #: 304-646-2947

   Our present office does not always offer me the privacy to talk freely, so in those cases I will take your name & call back.  We are building our new office at this time (almost ready for drywall if the snow would let us install the roof), which will provide much more private office areas.

   Thanks for your time,

   Kim Fischer

4. 
   ponytl | Feb 16, 2003 06:17am | #29

   just wondering... if the guy does all that... what do you do, and why would he need you?

1. 
   JeffBuck | Mar 02, 2003 07:20am | #32

   your post has to be one of the dumbest things ever typed on this forum.

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

    Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

1. 
   rez | Mar 02, 2003 07:23am | #33

   I can hear her now, 'Man, am I glad none of THESE guys responded'.

    

    

1. 
   JeffBuck | Mar 02, 2003 07:36am | #34

   I wouldn't be surprised if no one else ever posts an open position again!

   Why bother with this reception.

   These a-holes are way outta hand. This folder is here for good reason.

   If you don't like the f'in job.....shut the F-up.

   You just might be screwing the next guy that's outta work and thinks the posted position just might help feed his family.

   Guess that's what ya get over the internet? Fake names and attitudes.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

    Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

2. 
   CAGIV | Mar 02, 2003 12:52pm | #35

   Well saidView ImageGo Jayhawks

3. 
   CloudHidden | Mar 02, 2003 10:58pm | #37

   I'm with Pro-Deck, Ron, Jeff, et al. There was no call for this response. Kim is not spamming, nor selling anything. (S)he's advertising a job, and in the right folder, which is more than many here can get right.

   I know the area be/c my sister lives there (Lewisburg, WV). Close enough anyway. My nephews' school district is largely sponsored by the Greenbrier, which is a mega-resort. Sam Snead was the resident golf guru there till he died. I can understand the lack of workforce. When they remodeled and again when they re-roofed, they had a heck of a time getting good, local contractors. One upside (or downside, depending)...for the nearest Lowe's/HD, they have to drive over an hour to Roanoke! Not exactly the cultural mecca of the US.

   I read a lot about a big CM firm where I used to live in PA. Mostly they worked on commercial projects, but they also did residential. The "we went bankrupt" thing didn't apply to them. From all accounts they did what they did and they were good at it.

   Good luck, Kim. Sorry the response wasn't nicer. No excuse for it. I'll pass it on to my BIL (he works for Westvaco up there) and see if he knows anyone.

5. 
   Egg | Feb 11, 2003 04:23am | #12

   Look at your responses.  We all work (most of us) to take care of our family.  Money talks . . . BS walks.  Without stating as least a range it says you are looking for the lowest cost labor to take care of higher cost customers.  Say something that indicates differently.  Look at it another way, the opportunity is so good, would you take a 15% pay cut and still do the work?

6. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 11, 2003 05:01am | #13

   Jesus these guys are a sensitive bunch!

   Kim,

   I have told 2 guys about your ad. Both currently work in the Pgh area, one driving up daily from Wes' By-Ghod Verginny.

   I'll ask Big Dan if he made the call...but I think Greenbrier was too far for both. Dan was gonna check a map.

   Email me if you think you could make it worth Joe's while. He's making over $40K, living in a nice/mostly paid for house and is comfortable where he's at now.....but like someone already said.....money talks.

   How far from Pgh are you?

   I drive for money too.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

    Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite                  

1. 
   G80104 | Feb 11, 2003 05:17am | #15

    Do you include a Dental Plan?

1. 
   rez | Feb 11, 2003 06:59am | #16

   That comment really had teeth.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.

   The other...proper application of risk.

    

    

7. 
   GCourter | Feb 11, 2003 06:20pm | #17

   Kim, I am the one response that you had.  When I contacted you and asked for a job description you stated that there wasn't one.  My problem with that is, you say it is an awesome job but you cannot tell me what is involved.  I am once again in Masontown WV working on one of my projects (a three story octagon addition to a 150 year old mill on a stream) but I would like to know what is involved in the duties and resp of the position that you are trying to fill. 

1. 
   kimfisch | Feb 11, 2003 09:06pm | #19

   Guy,

   Following is a list of responsibilities, in no particular order:

   bridge the gap between the Owner, Architect, & Contractor by understanding, advocating, & communicating the Owner's requirements

   communicate via clearly defined goals, organized Contract Documents, & cooperation amongst the team players

   manage the Project in accordance with the Budget, Schedule, & Contract Documents

   support, guide, & protect the Owner's investment in agreements with contractors & vendors thruout the construction process

   focus is to be a driver of the work, not a monitor

   daily inspection

   layout all work with onsite builder

   order material

   coordinate material deliveries

   daily supervision of all subcontractors

   inspect all phases of the work

   direct the subcontractors to follow the schedule

   prepare punchlist

   prepare schedule

   buyout log

   negotiate subcontracts

   setup coordination meeting with all subs prior to start

   organize material purchase with respect to availability & lead time

   daily interaction with onsite builder

   daily issue resolution with Owner, Arch, & onsite builder

   budget adherence

   material selections & cost changes to Owner

   prepare Owner change orders & give to OA

   prepare subcontractor change orders & give to OA

   update job cost reports for Owner

   review, code,  & approve invoices

   Please contact me at:

   [email protected]

   304-536-7769

   Sorry that I did not follow up with this last month.

   Thanks,

   Kim Fischer

1. 
   kimfisch | Feb 13, 2003 02:10am | #21

   All,

   Following is some other information about the location & us:

    

   Visit our website at http://www.scmwv.com  The website is not very complete at this time, but it does show pictures of some of our completed homes.

    

    

   Log onto http://www.greenbrier.com & visit the real estate section that shows the Greenbrier Sporting Club

   This should provide a little more information about the opportunities we offer, & should dispel some thoughts about the remoteness of the surrounding area.

   Thanks,

   Kim Fischer

2. 
   MikeSmith | Feb 13, 2003 07:57am | #22

   just looking at the links Kim provided :

   this is a Construction Management firm... with no employees other than office personnel and Project Managers..

   not everyone's kettle of fish....

   go to Kim's company link and see....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   kimfisch | Feb 14, 2003 02:12am | #23

   Mike & All,

   Yes, Mike, you are on to me.  Our company is a construction management firm. 

   So the downside of being a project manager for a construction management firm is:

   no physical work

   all mental work

   the business end of the work is taken care of by others, so we may focus on the unpleasant side of building, which is organizing other craftpersons to perform the work

   we can focus on creative portions of the work, rather than sawdust down our shirt, or fingers freezing from sub zero winds

   The upside of being a project manager for a construction management firm is:

   refer to the previous list

   Sarcasm aside, there really is not a lot of difference between a construction management firm & a general contractor.  We both perform the same function with the same goals, & that is to provide a service to our Owners by building the best possible home for them.

   Thanks,

   Kim Fischer

   PS:  Mike: your statement about no employees other than project managers & office personnel is incorrect

   Edited 2/13/2003 6:15:12 PM ET by KIMFISCH

1. 
   MikeSmith | Feb 14, 2003 06:12am | #25

   kim.. i'm glad you like what you do...

   but there is a world of difference between being a GC and being a CM... liability is the  main one...

   here.. most CM's are former GC's who went bankrupt and no longer have credit.. or they are GC's who found a better way to screw other contractors and subs and pass the costs on to the homeowner...

   tell me one good reason a homeowner should add another layer of expense to their project

   and , i'd be curious to know what other employees you have besides the PM's and the office.....?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   G80104 | Feb 14, 2003 07:43am | #27

        Kim,

           The job sounds like something a  Good Superintendent would do. Is it really a project manager, or just another name for a Builder that has his act together. Focus on the unpleasent side of building, unpleasent to who? I think Mikes got it right, one more un-called for link in the food chain. Would like to see the part of no physical work. When we did high-end custom 30,000 sq.ft. and up you better know your project inside & out. That means checking everyones work ,be it with a tape,level or ladder. From the day they dig the foundation to the day you go to the closing table Because when things go wrong ,its the PM,Super or Builder who pays.          FYI in Colorado a good Builder, Super, or Project Manger (what ever the title) Starts @$70K with full Bennys (including Dental) In muilti familiy $100K can be had.   Good Luck in you search, hope you find somebody for the position.

3. 
   Gabe | Mar 03, 2003 04:32am | #38

   I agree with ya 100%.

   Any good super can fill the bill without any problem.

   Come to think of it......that job description leaves nothing for the owner to do or know other than being there on pay day.

   Gabe

4. 
   flintin | Mar 03, 2003 04:47am | #39

   Guys

   I have been reading this post for awhile now.

   Kim has been generous and patience with all th a-holes here. I was working in the mega city here in Canada and moved up north to a similar town as Kim mentioned. I have given up no money to move and have gained many things. I work the same number of hours for the same monety but with much less agrevasion. I have less stress and much more time to enjoy the recreational activities. We have Intrawest building a village at the ski resort. Samer situation as Kim's area. It is so welcome here to have developement and to have all the benefits that they bring with them.

   I have worked all across North America and I wouldn't trade what I have now for all the glory of travelling all across North America

5. 
   kimfisch | Mar 07, 2003 01:59am | #40

   TO ALL MY FRIENDS,

   This, most likely, shall be my last posting for this position.  All of you have drained my energy.  The initial "ad", to me, was no different than an "ad" placed in the classified section of a newspaper.  Everyone has looked in the classified, & if interested, responded to the inquiry.  The classifieds are not a place to editorialize, rebut, or even comment on.  So this section of Breaktime, to me, has been a big letdown.

   The upside is:  I have received some very good contacts with some individuals who are well qualified.  With luck, at least one of them will end up as a match.  It's just been hell finding them.  But then finding good people is never easy, so no complaints here.

   As far as my gender, I am a "he".  Not that that matters.  But one person who responded left a phone number.  When I called, someone else picked up the phone & rousted my candidate off a ladder.  When he picked up the phone, his first comment was "you better be an awfully good looking lady to get me down off the ladder".  Kind of funny, but not the best opening line for someone looking for work. 

   One comment was made concerning hiding behind an internet address.  I have placed my phone number in previous postings, so there is no hiding with me.

   So long,

   Kim Fischer

6. 
   r_ignacki | Mar 07, 2003 02:46am | #41

   are you korean?

7. 
   xMikeSmith | Mar 07, 2003 03:28am | #42

   bye, now..... i get down there mebbe we can play golf on one of sam snead's 18's ....Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

8. 
   GCourter | Mar 12, 2003 03:24am | #43

   I guess I should have taken the job with your first posting.  Sorry for all of the grief that you have gone thru.  My convesation with you was great and to the point.  This is a project manager, it sounds like most people confused it with a working super.  I found the conpensation package reasonable, the timing is just not right.  I will contact you in a few months and see if there is something still available.

3. 
   Sancho | Feb 15, 2003 10:58pm | #28

   Kim,

   Im with Bob (prodek) on this one. If you guys arent interested then just dont respond. But to rag on someone because YOU dont like the employment opportunity that Kim is giving dont start ragging. The hostility projected here is amazing to me. Where were you guys when the cyber pimp was around gggeeeessshhh give some one a break here.... 

   Darkworks:  We fight for Peace

8. 
   ProDek | Feb 11, 2003 08:32pm | #18

   Kim- I can only apologize for the way these guys are jumping down your throat. You don't owe them anymore explanation than you have already given unless they contact you in person with a genuine interest concerning the position.

   If they are interested you could send them a job description by mail.

   I don't know what all the hostility is about on this forum lately, but there are ALOT of people wanting to jump in and criticize, cut down, and slam people that post with good intentions.

   I for one don't like it. If you must act that way keep it in the Tavern.

   Bob

   "Rather be a hammer than a nail"

   

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Feb 11, 2003 09:41pm | #20

   Well said. 

   Do it right, or do it twice.

9. 
   acecan | Mar 02, 2003 04:33am | #30

   What does the postion pay?

1. 
   bd342 | Mar 02, 2003 06:22am | #31

   That my friend is confidential!!!

10. 
    roucru | Mar 02, 2003 09:33pm | #36

    Kim,

    Are you still looking for someone? I thought of someone that may be interested in the position. Didn't want to tell him about it until I found out for sure if it is still opened.

    Thanks!

    Tamara