Hi there!
Very interesting discussions!
I found this site last night and spent several hours reading!
I am learning much that I will need soon to “build a home”.
We live on a farm and we are selling the part with the house so we need to build one by a quonset barn, in a spot that one house was built in 1917 on piers and beams and another in 1957 on a 46′ by 23′ cement pad. Both houses were destroyed by termites, the second one even after Orkin treated it for ten years unsuccesfully (had been idle for 15 years).
We would like to build an unfinished metal office-shop-garage on that pad and attached, south of it, a 60′ by 30′ 3B/2b house. All under the same low pitch metal gable roof, brick outside on the house, nine foot flat ceilings on the house, regular windows, wheelchair accessible shower.
The house would run: small bathroom-kitchen/dining room-small entry-living room in the front 15′ by 60″ (all but the bath open with tall cabinet divisions) and master bedroom-bath/closet-utility room-small bedroom/safe room/closets-2nd small beedroom on the back 15′ by 60′, with a 6′ porch on three sides ( to protect walls, windows, doors, etc. from the sun and hail).
All electric, heat pump, that is what we have now and works fine.
We are in the TX panhandle so heath ( to 107F) is a concern in the summers and cold in the winters ( to -10F) with lots of strong winds. Because of tornadoes, we would like to build a “safe room” inside rather than a basement that us older people may have trouble accessing.
While talking to the safe room engineer, he suggested we build the house part walls out of those foam Lego block forms and reinforced poured cement rather than so much wood, because of the termites. He is a contractor and has build three a year for the past three years and sells the materials to other builders. The house he showed me seems very nice (and is a really fancy, three story one).
Our local small town builder, well recommended, used to be a cabinet maker, will bid on a regular “stick house”. He recommended stained cement floors as he has done some that turned out well.
We just started considering all this two weeks ago and the bewildering options are puzzling us.
Any advice from the experts here would be greatly appreciated.
Replies
Don't sell for another year.
Take that time to investigate and make detailed plans. this will save you a years income and ten years of life due to aggravation.
SamT
Thank you so much to all of you!
We are near the Canadian river and seem to have very hungry termites. They have eaten most houses in the farms around here.
We have to sell because we are in a four year drought that is the worst since we started keeping records in 1898 ( it finally rained some this week!) and are tired of borrowing money every year to survive. It is hard to keep operating at a loss, no end in sight and letting any equity left in the land disapear in the bank's hands. Age will eventually catch up very soon, so cutting down now that investors are looking for land because of the chancy stock market seems a good idea, rather than keep borrowing into a deeper hole. As someone said, "know when to hold'em and when to fold'em".
Nice to hear about those TT (Texas Tech in Lubbock) folks. Some on this farm graduated from there, in the forties. One was an architect, now deceased.
The contractor that we talked to about the safe room and suggested we build with concrete was recommended by the engineer at TT, so he should know what he is doing.
I was wondering about many things, like how to attach the roof to cement walls, bugs in the foam. But, won't bugs get in the regular frame houses too? The house we live in now was built in 1936 out of red eight-holed tile and stuccoed outside (after the termites ate the first house here too!). The yellow and black wasps love it.
Also, how would cabinets be hung without studs? Thru the sheetrock and foam into the cement? We built a tackroom in our barn ten years ago with metal studs and it was hard to hang any cabinets there but. We probably didn't use strong enough studs for that. What they sold us did look flimsy.
Would the existing pad still be a liability termitewise, even if the metal garage building is the only part over it? There would not be any wood there, as we mostly work on machinery and weld, don't do any wood work. Would termites still use it as a step ladder into the adjacent house? Would a breezeway distance between garage and house there help for that, or use it as a detached garage and move the house a bigger distance from it?
We were thinking about treating the house pad, twice, as recommended by an exterminator, before laying it and then treating around it forever but wonder if it will help. It didn't on the last house...nice if cement walls would be any kind of a sensible solution...
Is it at all reasonable to build a house with cement walls, no longer that it has been done? The contractor seemed to think that he could be competitive with wood because of the straightness and simplicity of the design. That is what raises the cost on cement work, the breaks and nookies.
We are thinking of building next fall, maybe, as per the selling contract we can live here until the new house is done to move into, or 1 1/2 years.
I found this site after I bought your magazine, looking for information. That we should have taken more time and learned something sooner is obvious, but then, who knew that there was so much to this? You fellows do an amazing job, for what I read here and then have to put up with people like us, that are so ignorant as not even know what to ask!
I did a search here for cement houses last night and didn't find anything ( but then, my computer skills are about like my knowledge of housing, zilch), will do more tonight again, to see what your previous comments were.
Thank you very much to all who have made comments and we will keep reading and learning more.
If you were to build a concrete (not cement) house, or just a few concrete walls, or concrete block walls, unless you wanted the redneck trailer park trash look you would conceal them with sheetrock so they looked like regular walls. The sheetrock would be installed on studs, either metal or wood, and the cabinets would be fastened to the studs. Usually, the contractor knows in advance where the cabinets will go, and puts wood blocking in the walls for fastening. I think that icf walls have wood cast in place for future cabinets, but I don't know for sure.
Same thing with the roof...there will be wood blocking attached to the concrete, and the roof rafters will be fastened to the blocking.
Do a search for icf, either here (good luck with the wonderful prospero search function) or on the web and read about some of the details. For a concrete house, check the web sites for American Concrete Institute and see if there are any links.
You sound like you're a little new to residential construction...find a builder that you like, one with good references, tell him what you want, and rely on him to take care of all the detauils. It's good that you're concerned about certain things like hanging cabinets, but what you need to do is tell those things to the builder and let him worry about the details. For example, tell him that you had trouble hanging cabinets on the metasl studs in the tackroom, and you don't want the same problem again.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Edited 6/7/2003 3:54:40 PM ET by ELCID72
Thanks again for all the good advice.
Yes, we are absolutely new to any other than barn construction and will ask the contractor all these questions. We do want a house that looks like a house, not a barn and the contractor is the one that will know how to build one. As you suggest, we will let him do his job as he sees best, but we are curious about it all.
Still, it will be our decision if to go with a concrete house or a regular wood one and we were asking mainly about that decision.
We spent this afternoon going thru ten houses that the "big town" neaby's builder's association had on a "Parade of Houses" display for this weekend.
Very interesting big, fancy houses most of them but not what we need or want in a basic farm house. The designs, turrets and odd shapes were amazing, with two story foyers, odd shaped rooms and very intrincate traffic patterns thorough.
We saw many wall finishes and have new bathroom/kitchen ideas for light fixtures and such.
Most of those houses had concrete floors, grooved and stained, in the first floor, especially in the front rooms. Many of the bedrooms and bathrooms, were smaller than we were making ours. We learned so much by just looking at what is being built.
Sorry if I was hard to understand. I came to the enlish language late and don't always express myself right. They did spread several sacks of boric acid below that one pad we have when it was built, as they used to think it would keep termites away, but it didn't, so we are still wondering about that problem.
Our heads are spinning and we hope to make the right decisions when asked and will listen to the ones that know what they are doing, as you so kindly suggested.
Building any house is a big investment and a little scary when you don't know anything about where you are putting that money into until you have a finished product. That is why we were asking here and everywhere what would be best.
Thank you to all for the good help.
If time is of the essence, get with that contractor, TELL HIM YOUR BUDGET up front, tell him what you NEED, and talk, talk, talk, with him. While he may not get you the "perfect" house, he will give you a good, livable, dwelling within your budget.
Learning enough to sensibly make your own decisions will take you at least a year and your first effort will probably be far from "perfect" anyway.
As to all the details of connections and DW and cabinets, they have been worked out already.
Sorry about your bad luck and I hope that all works out for you in a timely and good manner.
SamT
http://forums.taunton.com/n/find/results.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime
here's a link to search results on ICF mentions.
I'm a little tired to go more detail now. You'll find that we here are just a bunch of builders and semi-builders mixed with others of all trades and training who all happen to appreciate fine things, inclyuding homebuilding. Taunton press provides the forum for this method of sharing information. We don't represent Taunton - and I'm sure that sometimes the editors say thank God for that.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
listen to Sam
Where in the panhandle? My dau went to TT so I spent a few weekends driving through thew area. Went and saw "Texas" one weekend...boy that's a show that should not be missed.
Those lego blocks are called insulated concrete forms or icf...there are several discussions here as well as articles in FHB and JLC. If you have a contractor who is experienced, it can work well. Don't find a contractor and let him learn on your house. What about just building a concrete block room and disguise it with sheetrock? If you dowel it into the slab and solid fill the cores it should be purty strong. You might ask at TT for recommendations on a safe room, since they are the leaders in research in that. I have a friend here who graduated from TT about 20 yrs ago, and he worked on the original stud gun. For you non-Texans, they developed an air powered gun that shoots 2x4 studs into walls to test the strength.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Hiya Ruby,
I lived in Lubbock for 2-3 years. I didn't know they had termites in the panhandle.
First - I would not build on the same exact pad with the termite problem. Some of them can burrow through concrete and soils need to be treated before pouring crete and a barrier placed. If you will use that location, treat, add barrier, and then pour again over the old.
Second - ICF's are great, but be sure to get them with borates for prevention of multiple bug problems. Otherwise, you might be providing a fine habitat for them in the foam. Searching for "ICF" s in this site will bring you to copies of many comments I have made on them. The energy bills will show that advantages and they will keep the wind out. Some special attention to engineering and connections could nearly make the whole house a "safe room"
Elcid is right that it is good to find a contractor who is experienced with them but it is not hard to learn for an intelligent and willing contractor.
Welcome to Breaktime. you've found one of the best sites on the web for information and advice and we expect to see more of you.
Smiles and good luck.
Excellence is its own reward!