Hello –
While contemplating an upcoming cable pulling task which involves eight 2″ conduit runs (already in place) and a 500′ spool of sheathed SE cable rated for 200-amps, I thought it would be helpful to have a cable puller that is rigged up with a sailboat winch so the cable pulling rope could be wrapped around a couple of times and then passed through to a helper who helps take up the rope as the winch is cranked.
This would allow the job to be done without having to worry about spooling the rope onto a reel and also save time from having to unwind it for the next pull.
Is there a pass-through (for a lack of better description) manual hand-crank winch that isn’t specialized for salt water use (=expensive) ?
I am trying to rig up a manual crank version of the Little Tugger Cable Puller that is made by Greenlee.
Thanks for any tips or sources.
Replies
What about the type of winch that comes on boat trailers or boat lifts? Sure to be less expensive than stainless or bronze...
If you're in an area where old boats are common, I bet you could find something used.
I thought this might be about female passengers on Pirate ships!
AAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AVAST YEE SCURY DAWGS!!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Pulling SE into conduit? For protection sleeves where it needs , emerging from the ground and a bit below or where subject to abuse, sure but 500' seems like a mighty long sleeve? Is this a common method in your area? Does the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) approve this usage and installation? Sounds strange, and considerably more difficult and expensive to do than needed, to me. I tend to go with single conductors instead of a cable when pulling into conduit. Not that it would be an immediate threat. It will work but will, IMHO, be more trouble. You might want to ask around. Different strokes I guess.
I get the impression that you won't be doing a whole lot of large cable pulling. A Greenlee L'il Tugger #1201 is no longer sold. Their websight is a nightmare to navigate if you don't have a UPC or catalog number and also loads slowly. A very poor design if you are looking for equipment. I finally gave up and got the information from the 1-800 service number. It also gave me a chance to vent on bad web site designs.
The service guy suggested GB had a similar device, a small capstan attached to a HD angle drill, but all I could find was a much more expensive design, Mini Brutus, but it is not cheap and seems more than what you need.
I would assemble a, what we call it, shark pole. A 5' piece of 1" square tubing, a hand winch and a pulley on the end. They are commercially available but I'm cheap and tend to assemble my own. Get the two-speed model. On long runs I usually attach a HD1/2 angle drill and let it do the work. Run a piece of flex, smaller than the pull head, down the conduit past any 90 to keep the cable from eating into the conduit if you use PVC.
I once worked a site where the boss used the truck for major pulls. He jacked the rear up onto jack stands, took off the rear wheel and put on a bare rim. This was used as a capstan, make sure the operator knows how to strip a capstan, to pull the rope. He kept an electrician in the cab to work the throttle and to turn it off if things go south. Great care must be exercised with this setup but it worked well.
It also helps greatly if you have communications to each end of the conduit. I like any of the better walkie talkies with hands free headsets but I have used WW2 field phones, cell phones, and even flag men to get it all coordinated.
Don't forget the lube. You could use Ivory flakes, Calgon or Wesson oil but don't. Use a cable pulling lube designed for the job. They are easier to use, won't glue the cable in the conduit and will not damage the cable insulation like substitutes can. Save the Wesson for use on the shower curtains during the after job celebration and orgy.
People have been killed using cable pullers if there is a kickback
Edited 9/2/2003 9:34:35 PM ET by wain
So true.
Pullers, particularly, the more powerful ones used on larger pulls are potentially dangerous.
There are few steps you can take to be a bit safer.1) Do not use a pull rope that stretches on any but the shortest and easiest pulls. The main offender is nylon rope. Nylon rope stretches, storing energy, up to a third of its length. If a nylon rope breaks or a winch breaks free the snap back can be vicious.
Even without any equipment failures the pull, especially on longer pulls with heavier conductors, when nylon ropes are used, tend to be uneven. Sometimes dangerously so. The winch will pull and the feed end will stand still. Often without warning the cable will be pulled rapidly into the conduit. This can jam hands into the conduit, break limbs and can cause the wires to kink, jam and have its insulation severely damaged.
Cable or specialized, usually braided rayon, ropes are more properly used.
2) Anything that reduces the friction, and thus the forces needed to pull in the conductors, helps. Breaking up long pulls by installing pull boxes will increase the number of pulls but make each easier. Limiting the number of bends in the conduit also helps greatly. Just because the code allows 360 degrees does not mean it is wise to push this limit. Proper pull head construction can greatly reduce problems. Lubricants, "There is always time for lubricants", make a big difference. Proper feeding technique, a steady alignment of the conductors with the conduit with just a slight push will make things go more swimmingly.
3) Common sense and experience are assets worth paying for in employees.
4Lorn1 and all -
Thanks for your replies -
This is for a eight meter bank and eight runs of conduit about 60 - 70' into the house.
They are mostly straight runs except at the 90-deg sweeps where it drops down from the meter pack.
Straight runs will be below grade in conduit until it enters the house.
All the conduits are in place with cable pulling lubricant pre-applied inside the sweeps.
Sailboat winch can be a one-person deal - look for a self-tailing winch. However, these, like all sailing gear, are pretty spendy. It will also be very slow - a larger sailing winch can have a total 40:1 mechanical advantage, which means that your 20 pounds of grunt on the handle yields 800 punds of pull, but 500 feet of pull means twenty thousand feet of cranking. Yikes!
didBlah, yada, whatever, Hi how are you today
Thanks for the reply.
The 500' is the spool size that cable was purchased in.
Thank goodness it's not one 500' pull.
Yes, a Harken self tailing winch seems to be a grand and up and the sky is the limit.
There will be eight shorter runs about 60' from the meter pak to the wall entrance.
A used one would work fine, but make sure you're able to get parts. Names to look for: Barient (out of business), Anderson, Lewmar, Harken, Antal. All are spendy. I'd think you'd be able to thunk up an easier way, unless you've got some sailor friends! I assume you'd mount the thing in a truck bed or something.
didBlah, yada, whatever, Hi how are you today
After all that's been said and done, it may be simplest to just use a regular cable winch and go through the bother of feeding the cable to the other end.
I used the sailboat winch only as a reference point for finding something similar - no way I will fork out the money for the real mccoy. We're several hundred miles inland !
Need to rig up something very stable/sturdy to counter the downward force when pulling upwards into the box.
not sure if the box itself will bear that sort of force and no need to find out.
Due to the additional run once it enters the house, the cable will be pulled from inside the house to the meter pak.
It's not a long distance and straight with only one 90 sweep into the meter pak from below.
I appreciate the warning from several folks about rope stretch and kickback dangers.
.......could use Ivory flakes, Calgon or Wesson oil but don't. Use a cable pulling lube ...... --- what about PAM, was good for an O.R.G.Y. (Only Rigorous Geometrics Yeilds (success) ) once.
biggest full condiuit pull I've tried was a 5" with 4 ea 90 deg bends, 45 ft long for the SST mockup in 1971 for instrumentation wire.. Space was VERY limited. This was an aluminum conduit 100% full (could not even shove a pencil in besides) of TSP TFE covered wire, used a 8000# winch pulling on stripped/soldered wires plus ten human "pushers and straighteners". After a few trials and error, found that the yellow pulling puckey was much inferior to simple PAM vegetable spray - used up over 15 cans I recall <G>, got a raise, but not the orgy (small print) kind!
There is some decent Yankee American ingenuity going on here.
However, you did not mention the length of the runs. Presumeably 500' of cable divided by eight runs would be about 60' each.
Sailboat winches are hand cranked but they do have a capstan. But then you would need one person to provide the motive power [the crank] and another to put tension on the rope.
I, too, made my own version of a tiny tugger. I used a piece of UniStrut, a small V-belt pulley and a winch from Harbor Freight as the main ingredients. Harbor Freight is a good, cheap source of these type of winches. My main mistake was that I mounted the winch on the end of the 3' piece of UniStrut and it should have been more toward the middle to avoid up-lift. Also the so-called parachute cord was not and it broke on the first and only test flight.
Using an automobile or truck might work but may be un-ethical if the AHJ [Authority Having Juristiction] catches you. Rather than jack up the rear end and replace the tire with a rim, just attach the pull rope to the rear bumper. This will serve as a safety mechanism with newer cars since if the pulling force becomes too much, the bumper will automaically fall off.
Also a forklift or backhoe will exert enough force albeit in shorter "lifts". Wrap the rope several turns around a tine or tooth of the bucket with the free end tucked under the pulling strand.
~Peter