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Also look up a current “Means” Construction cost estimating book in your local bookstore. They give some pretty good estimates on construction costs in different areas of the country with multiple variables for different materials, etc.
In many areas of the country, you don’t get alot for $100 per square ft anymore.
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We are planning to build a 2500 sq.ft home. We want to use quality materials (i.e. no vinyl) with running into excessive cost (approx. $100/sq.ft.). Does anyone have one or two ideas on how to keep construction costs down without completely compromising quality? Thanks
*Kathy - Where are you located? Around here your $100/SF would definitely not buy quality construction.b Been there, done that, can't remember ...
*Kathy. See if you library has a copy of Lary Emerson & Walter Olesky's book, Builder's and Contractor's Guide to New Methods and Materials of Construction, published by Prentice-Hall. Or try Gene Leger's book, Complete Building Construction, 4th Edition published by Macmillan Publishing Company. Try Barnes & Noble. You can sit down in their store and read the book before buying it.See chapter 11 Outer Wall Framing, but also read Chapters 17, Insulation, and 23 Attic Ventilation. GeneL.
*Also look up a current "Means" Construction cost estimating book in your local bookstore. They give some pretty good estimates on construction costs in different areas of the country with multiple variables for different materials, etc.In many areas of the country, you don't get alot for $100 per square ft anymore.
*Ways to save money. Hmmm, first time anyone ever asked me that!How about:-Use standard or stock sized doors and windows. Example: An 8 foot sliding patio door can cost almost double what a 6 footer would. Arch topped windows can add major $ too.-centralize plumbing runs, and heating ducts-maximize space efficiency (you may have to give up the formal dining room)-combine spaces for different uses into the same area (maybe have a utility bathroom combined into a laundry room, or have a sleeping area for a guest bedroom within a study)-Minimize hallways-Paint grade trim-Do some work yourself. Even if all you do is paint.MD
*RE: "...even if all you do is paint." Gotta take issue w/this one, MADDOG! Coatings application,although not as complicated as say framing/finish carpentry,does have its own unique protocols. I spend a good deal of my time refinishing DIY painting projects gone-awry.But I understand your point, sweat equity,even if all you're doing is janitorial(site clean-up), may be a way to save labor costs. Really,though,design is a great place to start minimizing costs,as the preceeding suggests,think UTILITY of space. Just as important,give some thought to home maintenance-a cost probably not figured into the original building costs. Think a gutter system is too expensive,you'll spend more replacing rotting siding/decking,etc. Sure,cedar siding looks nice,but a high quality vinyl siding will require little or no maintenance(this,from a painter). While a teak deck may give you bragging rights,PTW is a more cost efficient alternative. You get the idea,explore all the options BEFORE building, with some thought to the long term life of the house(I'd avoid OSB as an alternative to plywood products,for example). Short-cutting now may increase repair/maintenance costs later,so build for the long haul! Best of Luck!
*Nope, $100 a square foot just wouldn't do it around here either. If you want quality construction on a big home like that, you're going to have to pay top dollar for it, there's no question about that. I would advise this - build smaller to even out the cost. Build a strong frame with simpler finishings: it's easier to add crown molding later than re-frame a poorly framed floor. If you spend all your money on square footage, you won't have any left over to finish the job nicely with quality materials. If you compromise some of the space in exchange for better quality, you're all set. Nothing is worse than spending $250,000 (at least) on a "trophy home" that is all but guaranteed to fall apart in ten years. I'm happy to at least see that you want a quality home that will last... that's a big start. And like Mad Dog said, it never hurts to do some of the work yourself. Good luck - Nick
*Knock out any roof gables that serve no practical function.Have the king stud for windows in your exterior walls fall on a naturally occuring stud location (16 or 24"oc).Have your second-floor baths back-to-back and located above (or near to above) your kitchen, "stacked plumbing."Lot more ideas, too little time...off to my daughter's dance recital...speaking of that...sell your children and save a bedroom or two?
*I'd say the first thing is to build it simple. Keep corners down to a minimum (e.g., build a rectangular house or close to it), which reduces complexity, time, and many costs. I'd go two-story, since you can get more square footage under a smaller foundation and roof system than a big ranch. Buy stock windows, all of the same kind, without embellishments (grilles, mullions, etc.). Buy quality paint--you'll use less to get the same results of cheap paint. Use standard modular spacing for sizing rooms and the house (that is, four-foot spacing). I'd also recommend going to a quality lumber yard for materials, not HD or others. You'll get better, faster service, without any hassles, and they'll save you money by taking back items easily, getting you the right stuff, and making the right recommendations. If you're building it yourself, don't pretend your time isn't money, because it always is.
*LRZ - I started to disagree, but the more I think about it the more I would tend to agree that the average DIYer doesn't really know how to paint. Wrong brush, wrong paint, cheap paint, no primer, no leveler (Floetrol), wrong conditions, no cleanliness, no prep, no idea of how to really apply and level paint and, usually as a result, not i enoughpaint on the surface.You said it! And once dried, a really tough act to fix, especially latex.b Been there, done that, can't remember
*Planning may be one of the best ways to save money. . Stick by Your plan! Its like eating before you go grocery shopping.Once you digress from your plan the next time gets easier soon the house you planned is not the house you are building and that always gets expensive. If you plan ahead and do it right You may buy from one source and insist on a little break. Subs like a well planned job where they can get in and get out.They may give you a little break. Don't worry about big savings, try to save a few pennies every chance you get. Good luck.. Skip
*LRZ,You missed my intent. I meant no disrespect for painters who take pride in their work and do the job right at all. What I meant was, that is something that a homeowner to be may be able to do, even if they don't feel capable or qualified to do other finish work. I may be wrong, but I think most people can paint, at least poorly.Painters experienced in restoration get my appreciation. What labor, scraping and stripping old caked up mouldings, etc. to produce gems!
*What's wrong with vinyl?....what is this....Old House Journal? Jeff
*Am I off, or is 2500 sq ft NOT a "big" home?Around here (No. Calif) BIG usually start at 3500 ft.I'd also venture to say that once you decide on 3 bdr/2bath (lets say) that increasing the size from 1800 to 2400 is not going to increase the costs by the same percentage (ie it is a 33% increase in size, but not a 33% increase in cost.) That is unless you add another kitchen.Sadly, taking your 2500 sq ft home and eliminating 600 feet would probably only bring the cost down to $220000. Those 600 very important sq ft are only costing $50 per. I'd also never bagged one of them trophy homes.....wife yes, home no.
*The devil is in the details. 20% of the job can take 60% of the effort. It is -not- so much about cost per sf as style ...And quality counts ... don't go for the showy crud, take delight in telling your guests how big the floor joists are!Use fiber-cement!
*Really know how your family lives, what spaces you use, and how often each space is used. Maximize those spaces that compliment your lifestyle, minimize, or be bold, and eliminate those that don't. As Andrew inferred, bells and whistles to impress the neighbors can be a nasty siphon on your budget. Build the house for your family. Not for the neighbors, and not for resale.Jason brought up the idea of "modular" measurements. I'd go so far as to lay out your house in two foot increments. If your area allows 24" oc exterior wall stud spacing, plan on using it.Have interior walls fall near an exterior wall stud so that the exterior wall stud may be used as a nailer for the interior partition.As to the footprint of the house...as your house footprint gets closer to a four-square, you come closer to maximizing the ratio of interior sq ft area and minimizing the number of feet of exterior wall required to contain that square footage. Example: a 2-story 36' by 36' house gives 2600 sq ft of living area and requires 144' (36 times 4) of foundation and exterior wall. Go away from that to a 46' by 26' house, you're down to 2400 sq ft of living space while still having to build the same 144' of exterior walls/foundation. Each could be considered an extreme, but there's an aesthetic vs framing efficiency balance somewhere in between the two extremes.Are you planning on a garage? You could omit it at this time, yet design the house with the addition in mind a few years down the road.Unfortunately, as many have already mentioned, depending on your locale, $100 a foot is not extravagant. When you complete your lifestyle analysis, every 100 square feet you can pare off the size of your house will increase your allowed price per sq ft budget by about $4 per foot. Consider bringing the attic into the envelope as living space, thus getting the same sq footage with a smaller footprint?Once your plan is in place and construction begins, avoid change orders. It's very simple to get caught up in the moment of "moving this to there" during construction, but realize that each change order brings you one step closer to busting your budget.
*Mongo,Me too on the recital. It sure was fun (albeit maybe an hour too long, 4 hrs). Did you have any of those "funniest home videos" things happen. Those tiny ones sure are cute. Used to love those grade school talent shows too. Boy, those times fly too fast.Kathy,You can do the math and study on the materials and come up with the best or latest and cost it out accordingly. The quality built part is where you take your chance. You need to study extensively on choosing the builder. One guys 100 is diff. than anothers. And, you can sure waste those quality materials in the hands of the wrong person. Be keen on the thought of maintainance down the road as you will have a set mortgage pmt and things that pop up will screw with that monthly pmt. Also, give good thought to the heating and cooling system and whether or not passive solar will help you offset some of your use costs down the road. Site orientation coupled with good insulation techniques, the HVAC etc will save you money later which can be used to offset that mortgage pmt. Depending on your location, the savings can be substantial enough to warrant some extra strategicly placed glass. Of course, you can spend money to not save money later. Study hard and don't rush it. Then again, with interest rates rising.....Also, take a close look at the allotments given in the bids for cabs, lites, plumbing fixtures and the like. This is an area where some builders putz with the final costs. Some put in allotments that are too stingy and the result is you have to upgrade alot of things. $$Best of luck.
*Some great posts. This thread is destined for the next issue of the magazine. Thanks for a good thread, Kathy.Rich Beckman
*There's nothing wrong with vinyl, as long as you use the all heart, old-growth, vertical grain vinyl, not that #3 rough, raised face grain vinyl.Seriously - Here's a prediction (15-20 years from now): BIG contracting business - total exterior envelope overhauls on development houses with cheap shingles, vinyl siding over soggy/decomposing OSB sheathing, failed cheap windows etc. etc. Anyone want to take that bet? I'm not saying it to be a snob or imply that we shouldn't build affordable housing. The problem is that too much of what's getting thrown up is i disposablehousing and it's going to need fixing big time. Part of the problem is the all-too-prevailing public attitude (with job relocation, etc.) that housing is a commodity to be bought and sold, not a home, not an integral part of a larger community. Kathy, I have appreciation for the fact that you said you're building a 'home,' not just a house.BTW - What's wrong with the Old House Journal? It's at least in part about fine homes that havei lasted.b Been there, done that, can't remember
*New, Remodel, OR Restoration, a good painter is money well spent.i I may be wrong, but I think most people can paint, at least poorly. I hate doing a quality job, only to have DIY's slap on a coat of paint or stain and call it good. Though I have a few clients that are pretty good at painting, in large part it devalues the work and makes a poor testimonial to the job.A good painter can do more for a mediocre trim job, than a good trim carpenter can do for a mediocre painter!
*Kathy,Is the $100/sf for the structure only? You could get a good home for that in WA. Is it Structure plus land plus permits plus septic? This may seem like trivial arithmetic but oddly, it sure confuses many. Also, read the post from Adam S. A 2,500sf house won't cost $30,000 more than a 2,200sf house. DH
*Hey Calvin,The recital was fun to watch. She used to be in a formal ballet group...not fun for her at all. She's now in a class I'd say runs more towards modern dance. Great teacher, fun choreography, terrific attitude for all involved. Recital was enjoyable to watch. No big gaffs, just a lot of smiles.
*Jeff, I agree with you that efforts to create "affordable" housing generate long-term maintenance problems. My kids' first home purchases were vinyl village starter homes, and you could see the sorry structures waste away month-by-month, despite reasonable maintenance efforts. BUT, this is a country where folks with moderate incomes can OWN THEIR HOME... We as a country have decided that perhaps it's better to have a lot of mediocre homes with limited lifetimes littering the landscape than just a handful of castles for the fortunate few.Those of us who are fortunate enough to construct, remodel and perhaps even own some very nice residences find it isn't difficult to denigrate budget construction... we appreciate and adhere to the finer aspects of construction, and that's why we're here at this forum. From what I've heard about construction in Europe, things are really built to last. I'd like to know more about European building practices... perhaps there's something to learn from folks who expect thier homes to last for centuries rather than decades.Someplace there is a balance between "price" and "quality". Perhaps it's "value". A Yugo sold for a good price. A Mercedes represents quality. A Pontiac will probably give a better return on the dollar than the Yugo, and will serve the basic functions performed by the Mercedes.Oh, well... whadda I know about all this? Steve
*There was discussion similar to this one, about a year ago, if I remember correctly. Someone asked what could be put off for later, to save money and increase quality now. I can't find it in the archives, maybe someone else can.Beatrix
*I think it is a great question.It also struck me that most posts having to do with "how much does it cost to build per sq ft" usually twist in the wind and die...this is a different way of approaching the cost paradox. I think that no mater what the regional/local scale is, the thoughts here can apply to any location.Adam
*Steve, it will be easy to ask the Europeans about thier quality homes that last centuries. But don't bother asking the common working stiffs like carpenters and electricians. They can't afford to live in a house. They are all crammed into cheap apartments and dreaming about owning a home.At least here in the states, we make disposable homes for the masses and most common folk can figure out a way to own their own home. I have a friend from Germany that complained that he was making over 100,000 US dollars per year and wasn't even close to buying a home. He tells me that only the "elite" could live on the little lake that I live on, and most people would never even be allowed onto the street to view the lake (gated entries).Be careful for what you wish for,by the lake(s),blue
*Kathy Inseam of just a basement ad that to your living space , along with the attic as mongo suggested you could double living space for min.cost.
*blue, another thing that we have going here is the ability to get a loan to buy/build a home... A few years ago, I studied with a couple of guys from South America (Chile, Argentina or Brazil?), and learned from them that mortgages were hard to obtain because of the instability of their country's currency - inflation was rampant and unpredictable, so banks were not about to make long-term loans. We are blessed here with a reasonably stable economy and a banking structure that fosters home ownership. Another reason to be grateful on this memorial day weekend.Flying The Flag, Steve
*ITA that there can be a balance between price and quality that equals value. Values at different levels to those with different means. It's the Yugos dressed up and rebadged as Pontiacs that are going to come back to haunt communities, IMO.i ... perhaps there's something to learn from folks who expect their homes to last for centuries rather than decades.I agree with you on the above point.Europe bears many differences in construction. So many are culturally-based. For instance (not to stereotype, I have German family) when someone in Germany closes a door, it is intended to be closed and for absolute privacy. In a German 'fine' middle-to-upperclass home, doors are nearly always solid core and frequently half-overlay, with a lip that overlaps the frame. It's not so much a matter of material quality here, more cultural functionality.Just an example of a difference in what's important. Jeff
*What's wrong with "Old House Journal" is the forum on the web site and the so called educated information that flows from it. I have just checked there a very few times and checked just a few topics, but for the limited amount of posts I've read there I haven't seen a more complete source of half truths and complete myths as compared to anywhere else. I'm sure there is good info provided by some that actually do construction/remodeling everyday, but the bad advice based on pure opinion far out weighs it. I stopped checking there a while ago, maybe things have changed, but the last thing I read was from a "house restoration expert" that stated firmly vinyl siding will "suffocate" your house! This expertise was based on the THREE homes he has successfully restored in the past. uhh, yeah...Jeff
* Steve I love my Pontiac! Skip
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Kathy,
We are in the process of building our own 2200 sq ft ranch. In trying to keep costs down I have concentrated on making the irreplacable components of the highest quality-- higher grade insulation in walls, insulating foam sheathing, heavier framing, all brick exterior, Pella windows, but we are skimping on the "decorator" items. We are putting in lower grade carpet and vinyl, no ceramic tile or hardwood flooring, plain painted walls, cheap light fixtures, used appliances no landscaping. All these items I can upgrade later as money permits. We are getting a 2200 sq ft ranch, stone fireplace, full basement, extra large 3 car garage, sitting back a 450' long driveway for $95 a sq foot all done by the builder. This is to be our permanent home so I want a house that will last and be maintenance free. We can wait a couple of years till we can afford the cute niceties that usually attract homebuyers.