For roughly 3 years, Mom has been after Dad to build a cabinet that she wants in her upstairs bathroom. And my Mom is going on a trip in 3 weeks.
So Dad decides it’s finally time to get it built, and install it while she’s gone. That way it will be a surprise when she gets back.
The GOOD news is that he’s paying for it, and says money is no object.
The BAD news is that he wants me to build it. And I don’t even have my shop set up yet.
I went out to measure for it Sunday while Mom was gone. And we talked about the basic design of it and have that figured out. But I wasn’t sure what kind of wood to build it out of. Dad doesn’t care, and I obviously can’t ask Mom.
Tonight it hit me that I have a bunch of wood stored in the attic of my old house. A few years back my Uncle gave me a pickup load of mixed oak and maple for helping him farm.
So I’m thinking I can use oak plywood for the sides, and some of my oak lumber for the face frame. So far, so good.
I have a BUNCH of the maple, and was thinking it would be good to make the drawer frames out of. But I don’t know how stable maple is, and if it’s appropriate for this application.
Anybody have any thoughts? Or should I wander over to Knots and ask them?
97.4% of people believe you can come up with statistics to prove anything.
Replies
Maple is excellent for drawer boxes. It's an industry standard for better quality cabinetry.
The stability will be fine as long as it's fairly dry to begin with.
Is that all you want to know?
"The stability will be fine as long as it's fairly dry to begin with."
It's been stickered and stored in a dry attic for 5+ years. So it danged well oughta be dry.
Thanks for the input, guys...
All men make mistakes, but married men find out about them sooner.
It's been stickered and stored in a dry attic for 5+ years. So it danged well oughta be dry.
Very likely drier than any furniture wood in her house. You should assume some later swelling, especially from construction this time of year. Be conservative on your clearances.
Have fun.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Boss-
maple is used a lot for drawer sides, along with poplar, birch and pine
once dry, its pretty stable
I like to dress my drawer sides down to 1/2" thick: I just think a 3/4" side looks too clunky
Boss, is the maple hard or soft?
When we build the nicer stuff we give it maple drawer boxes.
I don't know if you were suggesting to use the maple on the outside in conjunction with the oak. I wouldn't do that, don't think the two compliment each other.
If the maple is just for boxes that cant be seen when everything is shut up then its more than acceptable.
Doug
"... is the maple hard or soft?"
Well, I went upstairs and banged my head against a couple of boards, and it seemed pretty hard.
(-:
O.K., seriously - I don't know. My Uncle cut some trees down and had them sawed up where they were changing a road right-of-way. So there's no way to know.
"I don't know if you were suggesting to use the maple on the outside in conjunction with the oak.
Nope - Just the drawer sides and back. And maybe in some other areas that are normally out of sight.
The downside of being better than everyone else is that people tend to assume you're pretentious.
Boss
Well, I went upstairs and banged my head against a couple of boards, and it seemed pretty hard.
What did? Your head or the wood!
No real reason for knowing if the maple was hard or soft.
Just figured that if you were going to hand cut the dovetails in the drawers the soft would be easier on you, thats all.
Doug
"What did? Your head or the wood!"
Guess I asked for that one, huh ???
"Just figured that if you were going to hand cut the dovetails in the drawers the soft would be easier on you, thats all."
Never done dovetails before, and I ain't gonna start now. Mom saw a built-in cabinet in another house that she really liked. So I plan to try to mimic it for the most part.
Attached you should see a pic of the drawer front detail I think I'll use. The only difference is that I plan to use oak, so it will be stained instead of painted.
The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
Boss
Well get it done and post a pic!
We need to critique the results, kinda like they do over at knots!
Doug
Doug, we always used ALL SAP..in hard maple for guitar work..reason is, it's whiter..the heart gets dingy brownish..Now Soft maple, is descernible just like what you describe as a test..but anyone who has BOTH handy..can't miss the difference...soft maple spalts real easy, hard maple, tends to mold, and get blue or sticker stain..I hate sticker stain.soft maple fuzzes, hard maple is like ivory sometimes..machines to a slickness...sorry if I am preachin to the choir..how zat spelled?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Restoring, Remodeling, Reclaiming The Quality..
"Well get it done and post a pic!.....We need to critique the results, kinda like they do over at knots!"
I may do that. If I can get some before and after pictures they would probably look dramatic.
There just won't be any closeups of the joinery.
(-:
Why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together?
Doug,
Id like to know how to tell as well.
-zen
Boss, wouldnt you want to save the maple for a surface project? I think Id use pine, birch, or poplar, I figure maple is worth a lot more.
Boss, wouldnt you want to save the maple for a surface project? I think Id use pine, birch, or poplar, I figure maple is worth a lot more.
Kinda what I was thinking, but I thought maybe I was just frugal.
Maple is nice and stable for drawers, you just don't see it as often with woodworkers because it's an expensive wood to be used in such a hidden spot. That's why people go with cheaper materials like poplar because you won't see it most of the time anyhow. But personally, I like the look of maple and oak combined on the same piece--good contrast.
By the way, FWW just put out an article on properly fitting an inset cabinet door that might prove helpful in your project. It's in the issue with all the different glues on the front cover.
Good luck, and post pics when you finish up.Justin Fink
FHB Editorial
"FWW just put out an article on properly fitting an inset cabinet door that might prove helpful in your project. "
You don't actually think I READ your magazines, do ya ???
(-:
I don't know where I could get FWW offhand, but I'll check around. Do you know the issue number off the top of your head?
I had thought about posting pictures. But I've never built a cabinet before, and am leery of letting everyone see it.
Maybe I'll wait and see how it turns out...
Efficiency is doing things right. Effectiveness is doing the right thing.
Fww issue 176, April 2005 - It has a cover story about "choose the right glue" which is actually pretty good. But any back issue will probably have a section about fitting a door or drawer, I swear they put that topic in every single issue!Justin Fink
FHB Editorial
Zen
I don't have any secret way of knowing whether or not maple is hard or soft, I can usually tell by the feel of it. I can dig my finger nail into soft fairly easy, not so with hard. Usually I can tell by dropping a corner of a board down on the floor while holding the other end, different feel to it.
I think Boss mentioned that he got the maple from a relative so he doesn't have any real money in it. Just as well use it for the drawers.
Maybe use the stuff that isn't as clear. Clear maple is worth a bit more so you might want to save that for something worthwhile.
It isn't like maple is rare or all that valuable, hell you got it use it.
Doug
Perfect..absolutely perfect. I use soft maple mostly, but if rock, or sugar maple is around the shop...it get's a new life as drawer sides.
Aim for 1/2" thickness, it's pretty much standard, and you can use what wont dress out to 3/4..makes math for side mounted hardware easier as well..total width of opening minus 1/2 for common glides, 1/2 for sides..1/4'' groove for bottom (x2) is another 1/2..you get the picture.?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Restoring, Remodeling, Reclaiming The Quality..
I think I got the picture. Not 100% sure, but I'm working on it. Haven't quite figured out the face frame thing yet. If the face frame is something like 2" wide, and the plywood side is only 3/4" thick, it seems like I'll have to add a filler to get the 1/2" drawer glides to mate up with the drawer sides.
Q. Why do blondes get confused in the bathroom?
A. They have to pull their own pants down.
Boss
Just one way of doing it.
The drawer guide is 1/2" so the drawer can be made 1" narrower than your total opening. I usually go 1 1/32" less, its a lot easier to put a slightly smaller drawer in the opening than a slightly larger one!
You don't have to do the inside like I showed, I do because I like the clean look of the inside, kind of the Euro look.
Boss, I know that your on dial up, open the smaller one, there the same pic.
Doug
Thanks for the picture. How much clearance do you leave between the face frame and the cabinet front?I was thinking 1/8", but that may be kinda tight.
A closed mouth gathers no feet.
Boss
How much clearance do you leave between the face frame and the cabinet front?
1/8" is what you want for a revel, you can go a bit tighter if your doing stain grade but I wouldn't bother.
Read your reply to John, I got a mother with the same "problem" as yours. A big ole dumpster would be the cure at her place too.
Doug
Don't know if you looked at the pic I posted earlier, but my drawer fronts won't be flush - They'll have a lip on them. Don't know the technical term. Maybe "half overlay" ???I was kinda thinking 1/8" gap, and a 3/8" lip. That way the gap wouldn't show. But I'm open for suggestions.I was planning to buy some full extension drawer slides. If I'm gonna build this thing, I want it to last and I want the drawers to work easily.
Q. Why do blondes get confused in the bathroom?
A. They have to pull their own pants down.
Boss
Just an overlay drawer.
I did see your pic. You can still do everything the same as I pic'ed, just mount your drawer guides even with the front of the face frame, minus about 1/16", they close tighter.
You probably don't need a truck load of full extension guides but if you don't have them local you can get them at wwhardware.com about as cheap as anyplace.
Doug
Sorry, I was getting a crick in my neck. ;)
Doug, you're using the regular metal track slides in the pic?
Boss, you done yet?!
jt8
Our lives improve only when we take chances -- and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be honest with ourselves. -- Walter Anderson
"Boss, you done yet?!"
Gotta be one smart-alec in every crowd, huh ???
(-:
Actually, I went by to pick up some oak plywood last night. The guy said he'd be there until 5:00. But the place was locked up and dark at 3:30.
So I spent last night trying to put my table saw together. Still only have 2 plug-ins in the whole shop. And no cabinets or shelves to put anything away on.
So it's gonna be a pain to do the work. Especially with a deadline like that.
Music soothes the soul. Mostly because if you play it loudly enough, it will cause deafness, and that can be soothing.
Gotta be one smart-alec in every crowd, huh ???
More than one in this particular crowd!
So I spent last night trying to put my table saw together. Still only have 2 plug-ins in the whole shop. And no cabinets or shelves to put anything away on.
What I wouldn't do for TWO plugins in the workspace! I have to run the extension cord from the DR, out the kitchen window, to the workspace. That's REAL handy :(
And not that I'm ratcheting the stress level up... but a half-finished unit isn't the same type of 'surprise' as a fully finished one. So once Mom leaves, the pressure is REALLY gonna be on! ;)
jt8
Our lives improve only when we take chances -- and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be honest with ourselves. -- Walter Anderson
Well, it's tough to know how much time to put into this. Personally, I think the whole project is silly. They don't use this bathroom, unless they get up at night. (It's on the 2nd floor) The cabinet Mom wants put in is to go at the end of the tub to enclose the 3rd side, so they can put in a tub enclosure. The shower hasn't been used since they moved into the house in 1958. Don't even know if the faucet works. And they don't PLAN to use it. Mom just wants to get rid of the tile and thinks a fiberglass tub enclosure will look better. Mom also wants more storage. Never mind that it's only 2 of them living in a large 2 story farm house. They have stuff crammed into every nook and cranny. And the basement is full of stuff. They don't need more STORAGE, they need a 10 yard dumpster parked in the driveway so they can get rid of a bunch of the stuff. (I'm sure many of you have parents like that)The only reason I'm doing this is because Mom wants it done. I figure she won't be around too many more years, so she might as well get what she wants if I can do it. So I want to build something decent, but don't want to spend an enormous amount of time on it. Dad is retired, and has more time to build it. My Brother has a 26 X 40 heated garage/shop, but he won't do it. So I'm kinda stuck. Maybe that's more than you wanted to know....
I'll do anything for money, except work.
My Mom would be happy living in a shack, as long as it had LOTS of storage. 100 sq living space with 2k sq closet space. ;)
The house I looked at Sunday.. the lady said they'd hauled 3 pickup loads of stuff out of the basement. The result was that there was a narrow path between the various basement rooms. Can't imagine what it looked like prior. =0
Well shooooooot, while you're working on that bathroom, why don't ya just rip that cast iron tub out and put a fiberglass tub/shower unit in :)
BA's are dangerious to do work in. The project exands like kudzu.jt8
Our lives improve only when we take chances -- and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be honest with ourselves. -- Walter Anderson
Sugar maple is really the only one that is that hard. All of the rest is soft maple. If any of the cut up wood still has bark on it, you could grab a piece and look online for other pictures of sugar maple trees to match it with.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
No bark on any of the lumber. It's all pretty square. But it hasn't been planed yet. I used some for a project a while back and tried to stain it. But it got real blotchy, so I ended up painting it.
Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to apply.
If you can dent it easily, it's probably soft maple. If you cut it on a tablesaw with a sharp blade, you'll know if it's hard or soft. I made the mistake of admiring a cut I made on a piece of hard maple by running my thumb along the edge. No splinters but the edge cut my thumb with almost no effort. Hard maple is what they use to make pool cue shafts. Fine grain and you can actually polish the wood to a nice sheen, without varnish, lacquer, etc. Soft won't look the same, is slightly lighter and carves more easily.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
John
The full extension guides is what I kinda/sorta drew in the pic.
They take up 1/2" on either side. The standard Blum epoxy 3/4" guides take up the same amount of space.
How did you twist the pic partially, I drew it crocked so I had to post it that way.
Doug
I build alot of cabinets and furniture for my job and maple is the most common wood i use. It is very stable once it is dried, and takes a nice finish with minimal effort. It would be a nice choice for a secondary wood with the oak.