Hello All,
My wife, after +2.5 years of living in this home, has finally decided to make it her own. That’s good news according to her, but I’m busy enough as it is.
So, with this announcement from her, she picked a room and wants it painted. Notice, I did not say she wants to paint it. Therein lies the problem: I have to paint it. Ok, I’m no painter. My idea of painting my HT in the basement will be to buy a power paint-sprayer and do it all in black–seriously!
So, with this in mind, I was wondering what ‘solution’ I can purchase from a big box (namely HD or Lowes) in terms of paint sprayers and ‘have at it’ on a room thats been masked to death (including completely masking the entire trimwork, windows, and doors leaving only the walls and ceiling exposed)?
Also, I would be interested in knowing people’s personal experiences on things to do and not to do when applying flat latex over a pre-existing flat latex the builder applied. My home is done, by default by the builder, in flat beige latex with white [semi-] gloss non-latex.
We’ve only been in the home for about 2.5 years, non-smokers non-parents, and the walls are pretty much as they were when we bought the house from the builder. I’ve washed the floor and crown molding to remove dust & dirt, but my first experiences with ‘delicate’ masking and brush/roller-based primer application was a complete disaster.
Its time to get Medieval on the drywall as I’ve spent a day and a half trying to apply a one-shade-lighter primer to the wall with the bay window. It looks like prime USDA crap of a paint job. Now, I wish to be God in this room and slap the walls into submission even with brute force.
I’m not talking about buying a $100 sprayer, but something in the $250-400 range I can use in the rest of the house when that dang Honey Do list is served with my cup of coffee in the future. Guys (and Gals) please help me out here. I’m desperate (but too cheap to pay someone else).
Replies
It sounds like you've got all the makings of a classA divorce seeded in there unless you raise the bidding to a $750 HVLP turbine and paint gun.
I might have suggested renting an airless but your level of experience suggests that you might blow the masking right off the trim and windows with it. The HVLP is lower pressure.
you will need a large nozzle set for latex though. The standard tip is small for oil and lacquers. Latex is heavy with larger molecules plus pigments.
I think a test comparrisson of guns for mounting on an air comprsspor in a journal showed that the gun from harbour Freight and salvage - of all places - was the best retro. And it would fitr your budget if you already have an air source.
You will have to go slow though. A compressor doesn't provide high volumn for long without burning itself up.
Personally, I would either use a brush and roller or put the tools in her hands.
It's all in the attitude.
Excellence is its own reward!
Brush and roller. That' the ticket, skip the machinery. Maybe a trim pad too, they work fine. Be sure to get real quality brushes and rollers, the difference in the paint application versus cheap brushes and rollers is startling. Get good paint too of course.
If you're the worlds worst painter you can be the fastest worlds worst painter with an airless, plus you have to clean the machine as well as the other messes you make with it. NWMTAE.
Brush and roller.I hate to paint, but I'm good at it. Just use the roller 3/8 nap pay attention and do it right. I never mask, it just causes problems when you go to pull it off. My wife came up with a new color scheme for the whole house a few years ago. I told her she could do the fist half and I would do the second half. She and her sister did the living room, that's the last room that's been done. SHe lost the desire after that.
Who Dares Wins.
Brush & roller seems to be a general concensus in this chatroom. I also took the librety of posting the original post in the Tool for Home Building chatroom, too. There, I seem to get a lot of sprayer individuals. That's interesting!
Well, my first attempt at putting down the primer was better with the roller than the brush (streaks/runs), but I learned a nasty suprise about the roller I was using when I turned it with the roller standing vertical: paint poured out of the end and onto the drop-cloth. I can only imagine what I would have done had it poured on me ... German & Scotts are not known for their calm disposition, hehe.
So, how about a power roller? Gunner, no masking? When there is a 1.5" vertical strip of wall in-between the windows of the bay window, which means this space is angled in the worse position, your hand is capable of not slaping the trim? Heck, I masked minimally *1.5" tape, and still got part of the trim (Parkinson's, here I come).
Opinions of the Behr primer & paint I bought? Should I even ask?
sure you could buy a power roller and use it.
But then we would just laugh at you ;-),
sorry couldn't resist, but those power rollers aren't worth it, I'm starting to get that you live by the tim allen theory of more power??Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals build the Titanic.
Curious (and not to take this off topic at hand), if everyone feels the same way about nailers, too? How about a miter saw? Next, we'll all bycycle to the jobsite and do away with the pickup, hehehehehe. Can you imagine trying to hitch a trailer to that bicycle?
Come'on guys, I asked for the best brishes and rollers at the big boxes. While some will say you get no quality or help from them, I don't live where there are real hardware stores near me--the big boxes dominate my neck of the woods. So, if I presume I have half-way decent brishes and rollers then its a condition of my application process or the material I am applying (i.e. primer/paint).
Being that I have no experience with painting, I cannot imagine that I would be beyond a half-way decent job provided the tools and materials make up for some (but not all) of my lacking in experience. Streaking primer via brush application requires me to place a second coat of primer before I get the first coat of paint (which probably itself need two coats).
This acceptance means I'm applying material four times. Is this how everyone else is doing it? I've mentioned in this thread and also the Tools chatroom what paint I'm using. Could this Behr primer/paint be crap? Or is the problem just me? If its me then let's remove me being the control factor in the material's application, but doing so either means finding a painter (not an option) or finding a tool that controls the flow of material onto the wall. Right?
A couple thoughts - from one non-professional painter who has spent many Summers painting.
I think you do have Tim Allen disease. Paint pouring off the roller means that you overloaded the roller with way too much paint. The trick to good painting is getting the perfect amount of paint on your roller and brush, not slapping the paint on. A few light coats are much better and easier than one heavy coat, and look a hell of a lot nicer. If paint is running down your walls or there is paint on your brush handle, you're overloading it.
Get the Fine Homebuilding from about a year ago about painting rooms, written by a pro who does it with brush and roller. Search for it in the back issues section. It'll cost you about $10, well worth it. If you can find the recent "Ask this Old House," show that had 10 minutes about how to paint, it would be well worth it as well. If you can, find a friend that knows his stuff to give you an hour lesson. Somebody with you pointing out your flaws in technique is worth much more than 10 articles.
Good painting is 90% preparation and 10% application. Learn how to prepare your surfaces and how to do a good cauking job with good quality caulk.
I've had mixed luck with Behr paints. Benjamin Moore stuff goes on much nicer, and covers much better, IMHO. NEVER use cheap paints - the cost isn't worth your time and agony (and a poor job). Also, find a knowledgeable paint store guy (not the big-box teenager who took the job for the Summer) and ask him what prep, what primer, and what drying times you should expect.
Power tools and sprayers are NOT THE ANSWER. They just make a bigger mess and waste more time masking, particularly for the novice. If you watch This Old House, many pros still use roller and brush. You should have spent so much time in the prep phase that putting on the paint is a short pleasure after the real job is over.
I think you do have Tim Allen disease. Paint pouring off the roller means that you overloaded the roller with way too much paint.
Um, I don't think this is the case. In fact, I had just removed the roller from the bay window's ceiling to get more paint when the dribble of paint came out of a gap between the nap's base and the roller's spindle assembly. I didn't notice this gap early-on or I would have made sure not to have allowed paint to get into it.
Anyone live in Atlanta, hehe?
Do NOT buy cheap rollers. The roller covers will slowly slip off the roller as you are painting. Paint will get in the gap and drip.
The expensive rollers I have uses seem to grab the roller cover better and eliminate the problem.
Without examples, how would I know what a 'cheap' roller is, and what you consider a good roller?
On the advice of a painter, I invested in a good-quality frame and Baker "lamb" covers. The Baker covers were expensive compared to the One-Coat ones I had used before; but, as soon as you've painted a few feet of wall, you can tell there's a difference. I took someone's advice, and it worked out for me..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Dude I aient a painter either, I did some work for the wifes cousin who is and He painted. But He paints 4mil-5 mil dollar homes. He uses a roller and brush. After watching him I learned its all in the prep w/ patience. So basically it is fill the dents and dings in the walls and moldings and caulk, prime, sand, refill dents in molding and , sand, prime moldings again with a mixture 10-15% paint mixed in primer fill any more dings in moldings the finish coat the moldings. Good luck I ate painting...
Darkworks: Its all 'bout da squilla
You are painting over existing paint right? I wouldn't prime it, that's just more to scrape off down the road. Give it a good cleaning and sanding and you should be alright. I may have skipped over something you said htat warrants priming As far as the sprayer, the few pro painters I know only use their sprayers to prime new jobs. After the primer is done they roll everything.Who Dares Wins.
I dunno, this is the first repaint of a subdivision home, right ? From what I've seen, they try and get 600sf out of a gallon of paint..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Maybe, maybe not. Who Dares Wins.
Did her again..shes asleep now and I'm making dinner.....
"hope I die before I get old" or Viagra on top of extra terost might be interesting....although.......hmmmm, might be interesting or THAT just might kill DW....lol....OK OK....hey....I was gone for a week, so sue me!
Be a serious smile and alive and 52 NAmaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 5/25/2003 8:27:50 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
I was reading yur rely to the painting question and you mention a bike w/cart. Just the other night on my way home, I seen a guy with a bike pulling a cart with a ladder, tools, etc. in it. There's a guy who is not afraid to go after some work. I wouldn't mind having him on my team.
I have not had time to tread the whole thread.
But have you try a RPS, Real Paint Store. I know that you said you don't have any good hardware stores.
But look for store that just sell paint (and maybe wall paper) such as Benny Moore or Sherman Williams.
Bill, no I haven't. Imagine that, looking in a paint store for paint products. This truly is my finest hour of Homerism. I must be brain-dead.
Fonr my other thread, I am using Purdy Handcrafted 2.5" nylon brush (KN25PASD) to cutting in and a 1" for close-quarters and french-curve cut-ins. Both brushes say they are for latex paints.
For the roller nap, I've been using the Purdy Contractor 1st 9" 3/8" nap, Knitted For Semi-Smooth Surfaces (no part #; blue & yellow packaging). I didn't choose these items, they were pointed out to me. I also have, but yet to try, the Purdy Dralon nap (K590375).
Folks, I must apologize. Up and through this discussion I thought I was working with a Behr primer product, and I just discovered that isn't the case. Although the paint is a Behr Premium (according to the can), the primer is Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 product. Thus, my experiences up to this point were with this primer product.
Edited 5/25/2003 1:18:34 PM ET by kartman0
sure you could buy a power roller and use it.But then we would just laugh at you ;-), sorry couldn't resist, but those power rollers aren't worth it, I'm starting to get that you live by the tim allen theory of more power??
Neil...you are too funny dude. You beat me to it...lol.
Brush and roller are far more easy than a turbine sprayer ( I own two) to just do a room. The Wagner (toy) sprayers are close to worthless if you ask me just in case you wanted my opinion....Turbines are great for fine work.
To make it easier be sure to use a pole attached to the roller. You can make way better time and keep splatters off yourself (specially dark colors).
If you really wanna spray there is an article in either this or last months TOH magazine (sorry) thats really pretty interesting.
Be divorced
Namaste
andy : )
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Nope I never mask. You have to ease up to it with a brush, carry a damp rag and wipe off any that gets on the trim. With enough practice it's much faster and easier, you can slide right beside the trim. Maybe rest your hand on the drywall and use it to steady your brush.Who Dares Wins.
I was also a candidate for "World's Worst Painter"; but, among all the tips I've received here, from the store, and from some of the local pros; my latest efforts are actually quite decent. (NB, my experience with the pros is that they don't necessarily practise what they preach - you'd be amazed at what customers will accept; however, I've had really bad luck with taking shortcuts.)
1) I wash all surfaces, TSP in a spray bottle and scrub/rinse with a damp big 'peanut" sponge; use a floor mop for hard to reach places; critical area is the top 6" of the wall.
2) Sand and fill, sometime it takes me three passes, then damp sponge to remove dust. Alex+ to fill the gaps. I bought the screen sander that attaches to the vacuum - good investment.
3) Using Purdy brushes (3" for most cut-in) and Baker rollers (10mm), put a coat of enamel primer on everything to be painted; check and correct any flaws this shows up (including priming any filled/sanded spots). I now have a telescoping roller which has been a blessing
4) Paint with satin finish on the walls and gloss white on the trim (except doors, which are semi-gloss white); trim gets painted first, try to paint just over the desired line; LET IT DRY, then paint the walls - I only used tape on the oak stairs, the mirrored wall, and some of the bathrrom fixtures, and on some of the carpet - newspaper or plastic strips under the base to protect the carpet; paint the doors any time, remove all the hardware. With the Purdy angled brush I can actually create a very good line between the wall and the ceiling and a passable line on the trim (which can be touched up later); I could never create a decent line when I was using cheaper brushes; the brushes, or practise: who knows(?). Use that Floetrol stuff, it actually works.
5) I paint onto the glass in the windows, then cut a line with an xacto knife and scrape the glass to the line. I've had absolutely no luck with the sequence instructions on painting sash windows; luckily, my sashes are removeable, so I take them out to paint them (prime first thing, let them dry all day, put them back at night, repeat the cycle the next day for the gloss coat).
6) I have been using Behr latex primer and paint, and, I'm happy with it, especially the new formula enamel primer. It may not be the best, but it's at least as good as my skills, and that's good enough. .
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Get me to stop in and help with the painting... You will never, ever again have painting any thing put on the honey do list. That'll be with in 5 minuets
A buddy is looking at the honey do list stuck to frig. Stands there reading it for a while and then says.... Build her a new house.. It'd be a lot less work.
Edited 5/25/2003 10:42:28 PM ET by IMERC