I went to a job the other day that had three mulled Andersen casement windows. Two of the three sashes had seal failures. Pulled out my square to find that the sashes, as well as the frame, was seriously out of square.
So, ordering new sashes will solve the seal failure problem, but that would be like installing rectangles into a parallelogram. The house is sided with aluminum and the windows are on the second floor.
The right thing to do would be to remove the siding, remove the nails from the nailing fin, remove the interior casing…..and reshim the window. I’m not really excited about trying to disassemble the aluminum siding on the second floor.
Do you guys know of anything that I could try before basically reinstalling this window? Any tricks of the trade?
Thanx!
jocobe
Replies
The only trick I know is do it right.
But the first thing before re-installing the unit is to find out whether something else is going on to be making the whole house settle or shift to be causing this. If you re-install and the house keeps moving, you have accomplished nothing
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Piffin-The house was built in 1990. I've removed and replaced vinyl siding before...but never aluminum. Will I be able to successfully remove and reuse the siding, in your experience?Thanx!
jocobeView Image
Aluminum, is the same premise as vinyl.....you`ll need to be a bit more careful as the aluminum will dent....but its certainly do-able.
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Try a siding zipper, if you don't have one.http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004SUQW/qid=1112151611/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/102-8489676-1574511?v=glance&s=hi
I've never worked with AL siding, sio I can't answer that - but re age of house, it doesn't matter if it is fifteen years old or fifteen days old. if it is moving, it is a problem to deal with. Look inside for telltale cracks in SR, casing joints openning up, etc. try using your level to look at the place.Maybe it has a lousy foundation, poor soils, foam exterior sheathing with inadequate shear bracing. maybe the builder saved on nialsormaybe he just did sloppy work installing the windows. I don't know but you have to know = before you start the job
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Thanx Piffin, I'll check it out!jocobeView Image
If you are not used to it, then unzipping and rezipping the aluminum siding is going to be a bear. Not too many guys well-versed with aluminum these days.
You may find that by removing the interior casing and shimming, the window may come into square. Those windows are fastened by nailing flanges under the siding (and may have additional fasteners through the casings into the wall studs so look for that and remove as needed.).... so anyhow, some nailer flanges will glide in the frame to some extent, especially on vinyl windows. (some brands' flanges are an add-on, slid into channels in the frame)
Furthermore, the nailing holes are often slotted as well and the flange may have "wiggle room"
So.... the short answer to my long post is try to shim or coax the units into square from the inside of the house.
Pete
http://www.peteforgovernor.com
If you have to re install the aluminum siding and re zip it after it is in place take a block of wood on the bottom of each piece and tap up to tighten it up. When un zipping it tends to bend the bottom edge down a little. If it had the pre made corners it is tough to get the first piece past these. Lots of time and care. Bid comfortably. DanT
I appreciate all the help! Thanx!jocobeView Image
How do you "unzip" aluminum siding?From what little I have seen of it it is interlocked and you have to start at the top and take it down row by row to get where you want.In fact I have to do that in the next month or so now that the weather has gotten nicer.Friend of mine has a house where the cable and telco lines have ripped out several times in ice and snow storms tearing the siding with them.I am going to take the top 2 rows off. replace some of the fiber shealthing with plywood and then make a wood mounting block with builtin J-channels, much like the vynal ones used for lights. Then reinstall the siding cutting out the bad sections around the mounting block.But it looks like I might have to take off some of the soffit to get to the top strip of the siding.
My experience is based on doing blown in insulation. We use the same tool you use for vinyl. You just use a few more of them cause they eventually break. Same proceedure just takes more strength. And the same as far as putting it back but again the bottom ledge will bend down a little so that is when we take a wooden block and tighten it up. Have to be careful though, to much a$$ on the wooden block will pucker the siding. DanT
I`m with piffin.....are you certain the house isn`t "racking"? How old a house is it?
Once you`re certain its not the house, you could attempt squaring the window frames from within. Remove interior casings and shim the units square. This is of course assuming that the exterior flanges aren`t terribly out of square......not highly unlikely. When installing new windows, I concentrate on getting the exterior close to square before moving inside and shimming unit dead on. Once that is accomplished, I go back and adjust exterior. I`ve seen guys do just the opposite though....square unit from the outside and nail off before going inside to fudge the unit enough to operate. Possibly, what you`ve witnessed.
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How do I determine the house is racking? If this is something you and Piffin recommend I investigate, what course of action do I take? I primarily repair and replace, windows and doors. What type of individual would you recommend to the homeowner to contact? A contractor that builds homes? Engineer? Thanx for your help!
jocobeView Image
You have a bearing point problem.
One side is moving south causing the widow to migrate out of square, resulting in the sash carrying weight, making the seals fail... assuming that at some point these windows actually operated.
Removing aluminum siding is the lest of your problems.
Do it right. There are a few tricks for patching in Al siding, but they can wait. First thing to do in that regard is to see if there are some spare pieces laying around, or if you can "borrow" some off the back of the garage, etc. How much extra siding you have for patching will partly determine how you should approach the demo.
First thing to do with regard to the repair itself is to find out if the house is dynamically moving or if it's been in essentially this shape for 10 years or more. Checking things that would slide relative to each other (such as free-standing chimney) on the side that seems to be sinking would give you some idea -- if there are fresh scrape marks or exposed fresh paint, etc, then motion has occurred recently.
If there is recent motion, that problem needs to be fixed before the windows. But worst case you could set the windows to "float" in the opening, with some sort of sliding flashing around the edges, and "tolerant" trim on the inside.
Re "unzipping", it's pretty iffy on Al. Another technique is to push the bottom piece down to any extent that it will move, push the top piece up similarly, then use something like an old hunting knife to score the Al just under the edge of the top piece. Tilt the knife handle down slightly so that you get behind the edge a little. Once the bottom piece is cut free you can work it out of the bottom joint and then remove the nails of the piece below.
When reinstalling the cut piece, try to "cheat" a little jamming it up under the piece above, then secure with nails near the top and casing nails drive up at an angle through the weep holes. If you have a fresh piece you can install in place of the cut piece, trim its top hook off so that it can jam behind the piece above.