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I am wondering about a substitute for litecrete for hydronic heat. Any drawbacks with regular concrete?? Any other products or ideas??Thanks.
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Have always used sand and cement w/chicken wire reinforcement. S&C, laid very dry, should form a ball when you compress it, is the most stable substrat I have ever found. Its a technique that is over three thousand years old. It's also one of the most labor intensive methods you will ever try...
If you want more info on methods, leave a note. I'll check back later
*If I read it right, sounds like you've used litecrete and are wondering if regular mix concrete is suitable for use with a hydronic heating system.We have pex tube in regular 3000 psi concrete for two slabs, and pex in 1 1/2" gypcrete for a framed floor. As I understand it, the denser the material, the better it will conduct the heat.Do you have any specific concerns or requirements?
*Hello Mark, Yes!! Please tell me about this style of concrete-likestuff. Thanks ,Matt
*Matt, It's like doing a shower pan. Only bigger.I use sand dumped near an entrance. If it's a new construction and the carpets and finish floors aren't in, I'll wheelbarrow it in, otherwise we haul it in with 5gal buckets.Get or make a morter box, a big one, and dump 27-34 square-end shovels full of sand in. Add one 90# sack of port land cement and dry mix the two together. I use a mortar hoe and a method called pulling. You "pull the pile" from one end of the box to the other, scraping from the side of the pile from the top down. I usually do this 3-4 times. How much water you add is dependant on how wet the sand the supplier dumped. Usually 3-5 gal. of water. You make a mountain in the box of the mixed material and cut out the center to make a crater. Fill it with some of the water and let the water soak in. Then start pulling it, one end to the other. 4-5 times. Best to hire laborers to help because you'll be inside on your knees.The finished mix looks like damp grey sand and when you tool it, it's smooth, but no water is pulled to the surface.I staple down felt on the sub-floor and then run the hydronic hose as required. I lay down and staple 1" chicken wire on top of the hose being careful to bend the raw ends of the wire away from the hose.If there is very little deflection, I usually lay a bed of 1" to 1&1/4" thick. You can snap chalk lines on the wall, but they get wiped out in the course of dumping the mix on the floor.I use a 4' brass bound mahogany level and a 12" & 36" steel trowel. The Mix gets dumped on the floor along the perimeter and I start packing the stuff down with the trowel. Using the level, I wiggle it into the mix until level and slide and scrape the level, keeping an eye on the bubble, across the mix to create the level bed. I come back with the trowel and smooth it out.Sounds alot easier than in practice.Meanwhile, the next batch is being mixed up. And on you go......I wish I was aware of a book or a manual to refer you to, but I learned this technique from an old tile setter. I know that I lack articulation on this method, it might be a good idea to try to find someone with shower-pan experience or a concrete finisher to help you get started.The trick is the drier the mix, the better. Luck
*Hello Mark, I am wondering how hard this mix gets when cured.. thanks ,Matt
*Matt, Good question, since I've never had it tested nor have seen any data on it. Any engineers out there?Luck
*Matt,The screeding of concrete slabs with a semi-dry sand/cement mix is standard practice here in UK under carpets, vinyl, etc.The mix is as Mark describes, wet enough to stay as a ball when squeezed in your hand but dry enough that your hand remains clean.A pan mixer is used here but hand mixing is as good -- just more work!Laying -- the method used here is to snap a chalk line on two opposing sides of the room at, say, 3 ft above finished floor level. A 2" x 1" is bedded temporarily in some mix on the two sides of the floor to the FFL, measured off the chalk line, and another down the centre of the room. These are used as screed rails and the floor mix is screeded off with a tamp to these and finished with a wooden float. The rails are taken out as the screeding progresses and the gaps that are left are filled in.If the finish is ceramic tile or stone, the tile is laid on the semi-dry mix on a thin bed of cement slurry within 24 hours.
*One thing I forgot -- the sand/cement mix is 6/1 and the sand used is 'sharp' or 'washed' sand (the sort you'd use for sand/cement render), not masons sand
*Well it sounds like this is stable enough to lay tile on,guess I'llwait for the thaw,mix some up and see what I think. Ian,thanks for the input, the "world" part of world wide web blows my mind.Cheers
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I am wondering about a substitute for litecrete for hydronic heat. Any drawbacks with regular concrete?? Any other products or ideas??Thanks.