my 1st build. bout to hang interior doors. should I be raising doors up a bit to account for flooring now or cut the door jambs when flooring goes in. carpet is going in upstairs and laminate downstairs.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Fine Homebuilding's editorial director has some fun news to share.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Unless the floor covering has been chisled in stone, I would wait. It's way easier to trim the doors back than to try to make them longer.
I did 17 doors for a customer last year and HE said that the bedrooms would be carpeted. SHE, however, said that she hadn't really decided yet. I'm sure you can guess the rest of the story - lol.
yes I can..lol.
This build will be my house, we will be turning it over in maybe a year so I have made the decisions and my have has little to say about certain things. So I'm not worried about floor changes being an issue.
I sort of assumed that they are usually trimmed later, but was thinking about the carpet if I lay the base upstairs where the carpet is 1st, perhaps it makes sense that I should set the bottom of the door jambs to same height as the bottom of the base. where the laminate goes I was thinking, probably still best to trim later.
what you think?
For standard 6'-8" doors in carpeted areas I cut the jambs 81 3/4" to the outside of the door jamb header. I install the frame on top of 3/8" shims which are removed to allow a space for the carpet to go under. I would also install all of the baseboard on 3/8" shims in carpeted areas.
For door jambs over finished floors, I cut the jambs 81 3/8" and install to the height of the finished floor. If it was laminate I would install on a shim of laminate plus foam. If it was hardwood I would install on a shim of that...etc.
Installing the doors before the flooring allows the painters to finish without worry of splatter or spill.
Gord
Thanks for info.
one question: if you've got the height in the r.o. would you still precut the jambs? are you wanting to maintain the overall height of the door?
You'll probably want to maintain the tops of the doors at a consistent level - particularly in hallways and places where the doors are close together. Few people will ever actually see differences, but they'll notice that "it doesn't look quite right".
Hang the tops of your doors an equal distance from the ceiling rather than the floor. Your floor coverings may vary in thickness but that "visual reference line" that people will notice is the ceiling - not the floor.
Your ideal RO should be around 82½" from the plywood floor.
The jamb heights I mentioned are to maintain a reasonable space under the door to ease installation and provide some air movement between rooms.
If your RO dimension is larger than 82½" you might find narrow casing (door trim) will not cover the gap between the jamb header and the drywall opening.
Gord
my RO are 82 1/2 which is what was specified by the door manufacturer. The crew that I learned to frame with always made their RO's at 82 3/4". But when I framed my house I went with the 1/2" simply because it was specified.
I know what you're saying. That won't be a problem for me as my casing will be 3 1/2" wide. and seeing as how the homes I learned to frame on were high end homes always with big trim, that's probably why what you mention has never been a concern. but I see how it could be.
Am I reading this correctly?
Some (or all) of you guys are hanging interior doors BEFORE the finish floors??
Never heard of such a thing.
E[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
You serious? When I was trimming houses full time, I almost always hung doors, ran base, ans so on before finish floors. I'd even cut the shoe and tack it in place. Done. Cut the check.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
OK.
So tell what the interface at the floor and jamb/trim looked like after completion.
And how happy was the floor sander, or did he just ........"the check, done" too?
Not in my house or on my job you ain't!
E[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
When I was trimming, it depended on the builder's schedule, not mine. As a builder, I always had the hardwood in, and sometimes the tile. It's not really a big deal either way. I'd always know what the finished floor would be, and set the jambs at that height or a little lower so they could be trimmed to fit. A scrap as a guide and a handsaw makes quick work. I'd set the base on blocks so the floor could go below, and finish off with shoe. As to the floor finish, a couple of minutes with a scraper would take care of the close up work.
Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Absolutely. Flooring almost always after the doors.
I really wouldn't want it any other way. Too much liability working on top of prefinished, or floating exotic floors.--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
See above.
I still don't get it. Never seen it done in almost 30 years.
What's so hard about protecting the floors OR doing a final sand after a coat or two first and then final coating the floor?
Guy I do work for will have the floor guy lay hardwood AFTER the cabs are installed. I just want to close my eyes and yel lalalalalalalalala.........
Sure makes a mess of the cabs, and all that dust has gotta be falling into the finish, and sooner or later he's gonna whack a cab REAL good and you know that is'nt gonna be pretty.
E[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Depending on the finish floor I shim the doors up, so the floor will slip under the casing, and jamb.
Most hardwood is layed pre finished around here.
We usually go with floor first, and cabinets on top. That varies based on the schedule.--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
Most hardwood is layed pre finished around here.
Must be that "high end" stuff again.
Still ain't buying it.
E[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I agree with Eric.
Everything fits better, the jamb to the floor, the base and shoe to the floor, cabs to the floor, when the floor is laid first. Finishers and painters are much gentler on floors than floor layers or floor finishers are on trim and walls. If the painters have first coated before the floor and trim and trim and doors go up primed and/or first coated, traffic is reduced after floor and trim. Sparkies and pumbers do their finishing before one final scuff and coat on the floor and final inspection.
Remember, we are talking about Fine Homebuilding, not three-month-foundation-to-finsh.
Just because it can be done doesn't make it right.
trim houses all the time i would rather hang doors base and case before floors much faster for me not to worry about the floor .
but have done after floor takes a little longer and the painter usually make a mess of the flooring so i don't like it that way.
trim houses all the time i would rather hang doors base and case before floors much faster for me not to worry about the floor .
No doubt, faster and less skillfull as well. No offence intended, just an obsevation.
E[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I agree with you.
I also would hang doors, and install cabinets after hardwood floor areas are sanded, but before the final finish coat is on the floor. Pre-painted / laquered base would be installed after final coat on flooring and over finished tile.
However, in areas where carpet and finished flooring are to be installed, the doors and base are completed to allow the painters to spray/ finish the trim. If there was some discussion as to the thickness of pre-finished flooring to be installed later, I would set door jambs ¼" off the subfloor. The floor guys would use a jamb saw to get a proper fit.
I've done it the other way, (hang doors and base before unfinished hardwood is installed) but unless the home is hours away from my usual work area, I never saw the point.
Gord
Edited 1/28/2006 1:40 am by gordsco
tend to not agree with the no skill required .It is not that easy to install trim and not have spaces under the casing .have seen job's where the floors are down and the trimmers still have spaces . and the painter to plaster floors with paint
Have done houses both ways and I would rather setup build the stairs make the newel post install trim and doors and not have to worry about wether or not I drop a tool on the floor or my benches are scratching the floor under the card board
but any how I find these forums great places for ppl to cut down other ppl ways
Around here the only floor covering that is installed before the pre-hung doors and the rest of the trim is site finish hardwood. That way there is no concerns with getting paint on the finished floors. Of coarse, with site finish hardwoods, the floors are sanded after trim carpentry and paint. You need to space up (roughly) the door jambs depending on what the floor covering might be. The only liability is that sometimes the floor covering buys screw up with their jamb saws and cut the jambs/casings a bit high - which I hate.
Am I reading this correctly?
Yup!
can't ya cut off a jamb and slip the flooring under if need be?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
That's what I seem to be reading!
Not very many guys know how to use a flat trim saw for the door jambs and casing based on the flooring to be laid.
We use the hard cardboard corners from our window packaging to protect the door jamb and even sheet rock corners during construction.
To many Subs and workers to babysit! Would rather repair a jamb than a floor.
Not very many guys know how to use a flat trim saw for the door jambs and casing based on the flooring to be laid.
Well, I do and I have for close to thirty years Mr. Smarty Pants.
If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that my inquiry was directed at the acceptance of jamb, casing and base install before the floor is laid.
It's not a generally accepted practice where I work, in fact I have never seen it done ever.
What I have seen is damage to walls done by the floor layers, I would not want to risk doors and mouldings to the care of the floor installers AND the sanders.
I did a job last year with custom fabricated Cherry doors and mouldings. They were all installed AFTER the floor was installed and two coated. The floor guy came back and lightly sanded and third coated behind the trim. Done.
Just my 2 cents, but apparently you know me well enough to believe that I don't know much.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
That comment wasn't directed at you.
Several people in the discussion have talked about jambs and trim not being cut tight to the floors. It was a general comment.
I apologize if you took offence to it!
And no I don't know you at all but I would imagine that your an excellent builder along with many others here, including myself.
I've built the same kind of homes you have just described.
We all have our own ways of doing things and that's what these discussions are about, finding out how others do things.
Again, my comment was about jambs and trim being left short and apologize to you and any others that took that comment to offence!
81 3/8" to the outside of door jam header so finished opening height is 80 11/16" from finished floor to inside of door jam?
For standard 6'-8" doors in carpeted areas I cut the jambs 81 3/4" to the outside of the door jamb header. I install the frame on top of 3/8" shims which are removed to allow a space for the carpet to go under. I would also install all of the baseboard on 3/8" shims in carpeted areas.
For door jambs over finished floors, I cut the jambs 81 3/8" and install to the height of the finished floor. If it was laminate I would install on a shim of laminate plus foam. If it was hardwood I would install on a shim of that...etc.
What he said.
--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
If you are using prehung doors and jambs, they are under cut 3/4" at a minimum already. I install the jambs on the subfloor. If there are doors in close proximity ,check the floor for level, keep the heads the same height. Carpet layers I know would rather the jambs and base not be raised, they do not like to tuck .I believe it is because of the carpet strip, I imagine it is harder to tuck under and still use the strip.Carpet layers use a jamb saw to cut the trim to the height they need.
mike
It wouldn't hurt to rough-in door openings to 82 3/4" for 6'-8" door. Carpet, hardwood, tile needs at least 3/4" of vertical space.
Trying to set the door jambs ahead of time at exactly the right height for hard flooring like tile, prefinished hardwood, laminate and vinyl doesn't work out so well as their is often slight variances in the subfloor. What results is that you might end up with the hinge side jamb/casing of a door tight to the floor, and the strike side jamb/casing up 1/8", for example. UGLY!
OTOH, IMO though, when you cut the jambs later, you need a good power jamb saw. I have had several of those hand undercut saws, and they just don't work as well - maybe if I did it on a regular bases - but then I guess I'd have the $200 Crain jamb saw!
Carpeted areas you can set the jambs height ahead of time simply by hanging the prehung unit at the correct height - around 3/8" - 1/2" high, depending on the carpet/pad thickness - no need to cut jambs. It's only the frefinished flooring areas that you have to worry about - prefinished hardwood, laminate & vinyl. Leave any necessary jamb cutting for the flooring guys and be sure and verse these guys on what your expectations are.
If you set all the prehung door jambs right down to the subfloor, you will likely have to remove the door slab and cut the bottom of the doors for carpeted areas and areas that get 3/4" prefinished hardwood, tile & backer, etc. You can put the jambs/casings right down the the floor on vinyl floors as the underlayment and finish floor covering is so thin. Hollow core doors (around here) can only be cut off about 1/2" as there is a 3/4" solid spacer in the bottom of the door and if you cut close to 3/4 or over, then you have more work on your hands.
Personally, I don't see how anyone here can say: cut the door jambs x overall height, since that is assuming that the door slab is going to be a certain height. Not only are door products going to be different in different parts of the country, but, as I understand it, some areas don't use split jamb doors - they install all the casing on site after the prehung door is hung... This stuff is regional.