Another thread got off subject slightly into bashing these purveyors of fine and not so fine homes that we supply into the market.
I thought it worthy of an independent thread…
There’s a guy here who has been known to show houses that are not for sale. One winter he even rented out a house that wasn’t for rent. The owners got to wondering why the electric bill was so high…
Excellence is its own reward!
Replies
Wanna see some real estate agent bashing?Try some of the home inspection sites:
http://www.independentinspectors.org/
http://inspectionnews.com and it's forum linked from the home page.
FWIW, I don't share many of the RE agent bashing sentiments expressed at those sites
I find it interesting that you posted this Bob. Seems like realtor bashing is ok (certainly is by me) if only by proxy. I also find it interesting that the first site has disqualified 95% of home inspectors.
Seems to support my arguments in a previous post?
Tom
I also find it interesting that the first site has disqualified 95% of home inspectors.
Seems to support my arguments in a previous post?
I don't think so. The Independent inspectors site is run by a fellow who is stridently against HI's marketing their services through ER agents, that's why he "disqualifies" 95% of all inspectors. His "disqualification" is based on only on that issue of marketing. His "disqualification" is in no way based on technical knowledeg or application of that knowledge.
(FWIW, I don't market through agents myself, but I don't need to; I do disagree with the general tone and implications of that organization.)
(It should also be noted that it appears that that organization misrepresented itself and the nature of the requirements to join to PA. PA recently passed a law requiring HI's belong to a national HI association which met certain criteria such as passing a test to belong. The Indepedent Inspectors group has no such qualification requirements, but its name appeared on a list on the internet as meeting all of the criteria. The organizer of the group has been asked to clarify the apparent misrepresentation on several occasions and has failed to do so. To me, that raises some questions about his own integrity, which diminishes the impact of his charges about other peoples' integrity.)
As I indicated in my post, I don't agree with the RE bashers, I merely posted it to show that there are a few home inspectors who do love to bash RE agents.
I suspect that there are regional variations, but in my area I've run into very few agents who try to subvert or undermine the inspection process.
There are dishonest real estate agents, just as there are dishonest inspectors and dishonest builders and dishonest priests, etc. So what else is new?
I know you are being nice ,but what post ?
Tim Mooney
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=22786.17
I think it's this one where you've been sharing your expertise.
I guess we touched on the issue with Kartman's thread too.Excellence is its own reward!
Thought so. I guess we will see what you dig up here .
Tim Mooney
I think it is deeper than just unethical real estate agents, more like an industry that has gone bad. Kind of like a Enron thing.
The real estate industry have so much non-consumer friendly legislation and laws on their side that your typical buyer stands a good chance of getting screwed. throw in an inept or dishonest agent and you can count on getting screwed. IT seems as though the savvy buyer can only attempt to minimize how much he or she is taken advantage of.
t
After eading some of the links above, I have come to the conclusion that if I had a crappy house to sell, I wouyld list it with an agent instead of selling it myself. Is that what they are there for?Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
As you probably read what I wrote in another recent thread......real estate agents sux just as much and not as much as ny other trade/proffession....Seems you have a personal agenda. I have had serious issues with scuzzy agents yet have had wonderful realationships in real estate with others.....same as with doctors and lawyers...To me.I've had worse issues with plumbers.....and other "subcontractors"....As you probably know from my other posts my wifes been a top agent for over 15 years full time so I think I know the issues especially with my spec houses...so what exactly happened to you that sets all agents aside from the rest of the trades? The links that were left were absolutly ridiculous and not caus emy wifes an agent but cause the inspectors a friggin jerk.
As it turns out the F'n inspector that dissed MY house I renovated/ built ,,I finally sold it to someone else several month laterfor more then I even expected.....The buyers were as happy as a lottery winner....but that jerk off who wasnt AN ENGINEER but a "house inspector getting paid $100 an hour......took him EIGHT hours to inspect my house bythe way.......dissed me.......wonder why.....he went onto another house for the same schmucks for $100 an hour. I passed with flying colors by two other inspectors from two other potential buyers and all the inspectors that inspected my house for permits by the town n a kickin bad #### inspection town,,,,,,,Only reason the other buyers didnt buy my crib BTW wasnt cause they didnt want it but cause their buyers for their houses fell through.....IMHO....HOME INSPECTORS are a crock of shid and then some....Engineers that are inspectors are another story but unfortunatly most new and even old home buyers dont get the difference.....Pizzes the shirt outta me.......All us guys here in Breaktime could earn somewhere in the league of a hundred bucks an hour if we know our sh#T.......doing home inspections........Turns out that the guy that inspected my house was an engineer inspector with a suitcase of tools from water meters to huge ladders etc etc and said my work was impeccable......The duche bucket that blew my first deal was JUST a house inspector that got his cough cough degree from that lame school down south......Borrowed MY ladder and had zero tools other then a flashlight and he had to go out for new batteries.....Hundred bucks an hour times 8 and dissed my work/house and onto onother house for the same buyers......This is seriously typical at least here in NY
Be well yall
NAmaste (tryin not to go grrrrr}
Anddyyyyyyyyyyyy grrrrrr lol
Be well
NAmaste
Andy
PS.....Hope my wife doesnt get in on this.....lol
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 9/2/2002 3:55:54 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
If all home inspectors are worthless, then why do you bother to mention the two who "passed" your house with flying colors? (BTW, for lurkers, home inspectors don't "pass" or "fail" houses, we evaluate their conditions and advise our clients as to the conditions we see.)
In your first paragraph you note that all professions have some losers. All professions except home inspectors?
And it appears you have bought into the "an engineer will be a better inspector" line - there's a big inspection co in NY that takes that line of narketing because they are all engineers.
Most of the things covered in a home inspection don't cover issues that PE's deal with in the first place, and does one have to be an engineer to build or frame? If you don't have to be an engineer to do it, you don't have to be an engineer to look at it. I have done a number of inspections fopr PE's structural engineers, electricians, plumbers, and other trades. Not one has complained that they didn't ger their money's worth or didn't get information which they hadn't known before the inspection.
The links that were left were absolutly ridiculous and not caus emy wifes an agent but cause the inspectors a friggin jerk.
To whom are you referring?
It sounds like yopu got burned by a cruddy home inspecctor (although there can be other views of any given situation.) Is that any reason to condemn an entire group of people?
our agent is a fantastic guy! Worked his #### off when we bought this place...just to split the commission with the showing agent...all on a 30K house!
So I'm guessing the commission wasn't that big.....and...we got the asking price way down from the original.
This was our first time buying....we did all our own leg work.....called in about this house.....got him on the phone.....told him I was tired of giving my number out and having agents call a million times with houses out of the price range.......
He asked what we were looking for...I told......also told him I could make up my mind on 90% of them from the street...so all I needed was the address and the asking....if I thought it deserved a second look.....I'd call back. He called back an hour later and gave me a list of addresses. A week later we toured 5. Saw 3 twice.....bought this one.
On the final day of tours...we sat in an empty home's backyard and he wrote out on a legal pad the steps involved in buying a house. How to call.....when to call..and what to ask. He also gave us a list of potential charges that the bank might try for.....then took a pen and scratched about a 3rd of them off....said this is BS...this is BS......this should be no more than $XXX......and so on.
We simply followed his instructions......things went very smoothly. At one point, the bank lost some paperwork......he said they didn't need that to make their decision....he called them..they called us back to apologize and let us know they didn't need another copy!
I'd buy a second house from him in a heartbeat. In the years since......we've had about 10 friends buy....have recommended him to all....and as usual......only 2 have called him.........the others had family or other friends with "the best guy ever"......and most have told us how bad the process went.....I just have to laugh......we do have the "best guy ever"!
Anyone in Pgh need a realestate agent referal?? They don't all suck......ya have to find one that matches your personality. This guy is good at holding hands...and good at stepping back and letting the customer make up their minds.
Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
Jeff......My thougts exactly....unlike "home inspectors"....Cant stand those jerk offs..and it isnt only my deal I speak from......lol
Be well dude
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, My brother builder, Sloooww down.
I didn't start the thread TO dis agents. I started it BECAUSE agents were being dissed in another thread and having heard a few stories about bad ones, I thought it would be educational to give the topic its own thread.
As has been mentioned above, there are good and bad in all industries and you've read enough of my posts here to know that that is my viewpoint.
But the real estate industry, like accountants, holds it self to a hiogher ethical standard than many and should be glad to have some bad practices rooted out and/or exposed.
For instance, withholding bonafide offers. I've lost count of how many times I've heard that one, where the agent unlawfully witholds an offer. The seller never hears about it because the agent is looking for a higher comminsion. I'm sure your wife is honest, but don't tell me she's never heard about such tactics.
If folks reading this thread recieve a little education they are half protected from these things. Give us a hint how a buyer can be sure that his offer is actually tendered to the seller. Make it a positive experience for us.
Peace.
Excellence is its own reward!
Seems the hot tub is ready to step into.
I have a realator lady that I litterally love. [not that way ] We have been together for 11 years . Ive made her thousands of dollars just recommending her because of her honesty. Ive tried to help her in every way I can , and she has also been there for me. We have made an awsome team. We do each other honest favors for free . Its been a true business friendship. Yes I pay her on my stuff , but we are in positions to help each other. However ; I believe that she owes me more than I do her because of the money factor.
She withheld my offer this last spring . I have only answered her questions when she has called me.[since then ] I did however tell her that I could sue her and win . Im not going to sue a friend , no matter how good of a friend she may be . Looks like shes not my friend after all , but she had me locked up as a friend The main thing Im dealing with is the hurt. She is still the most honest I know and shes an owner broker of the biggest firm here. I could tell many stories worse , but you just got this one from the horses mouth.
Tim Mooney
Tim, I think that what you've said here points out that some unethical practices are so common that one will do it to a friend without even a second thought.
I really don't have any bone to pick or bad experiences of my own with them. I've gotten work from them and done them favors. Some of them are leading citizens and outstanding hospitality representatives for a community.Excellence is its own reward!
Well I guess that there is room for one or two more opinions in here before it gets to lonnggg to bother reading. I am an ex real estate agent, so some of this is first hand experience, and some I just watched happen. Tim, if money was the issue in your favors and referrals, how much money did you make on deals she got you into? I used to have a pair of brothers that thought that I owed them because of repeat business, I had made five or six commisions. Then I asked them how much they made on those same five deals and they got really quiet for a while, and then said never mind. Every body is right, there are some real bad agents, also some very good ones, the trouble is sorting them out. I highly reccomend reporting the bad ones to the state regulators, they frown on fraud and ethic problems big time. If the agents dothe job right, it takes tremendous time and dedication, for which they are well paid. I always strived to get answers to all questions, and tried to get the real facts. Not always easy when so many people are involved with such large sums of money. Even a cheap house cost more than most cars, and that much money can make liars out of homeowners, appraisers, inspectors, contractors of all trades, and even some agents. They all need to be reported if you can, and avoided completely if you can't. Andy, in the end you got more money, so it worked out better, get over it. Life is to short to look back into past problems, you will trip over something in front of you. No STEREOTYPES please. If we can't call your wife a %&*# agent , then you can't do the same about ALL inspectors.
Dan
I did make a deal about the money . Im not sure how much she has made me . I really wasnt counting until now . But one thing I can tell you is that will change for both of us . There will be no winners here , just losers . I will tell you that I was one of her top customers and business friends. A top referral for her.
Now I must ask you a question . Would you give this up for one sale ? I am the one that holds the parting decision and Ive made it . We are both going to be in real estate for a long time to come.
Tim Mooney
timeHalf of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Handy....I am not condeming ALL inspectors....just a real lot of em around here....And..I'm way over it....thing is...a real lot of inspectors( around here) kill deals with real lame reports and soooooo many agents on both sides agree....even buyers that hire them agree...seems that theres an ego thing andddd they keep getting hired cause at FIRST they seem like saviours till the buyers figure out the deal......$500 bucks a house ( for two hours on average) or $100 an hour on large expensive houses....MAjor shake down. Not all.I NEVER said all!
Be well
Namaste
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Not all.I NEVER said all!
True, you never said "all." Two of your comments in this thread:
IMHO....HOME INSPECTORS are a crock of shid and then some....Engineers that are inspectors are another story but unfortunatly most new and even old home buyers dont get the difference #22822.10
unlike "home inspectors"....Cant stand those jerk offs. #22822.13
Those both seem pretty absolute, across the board type statements to me.
It seems to me, and obviously has to others, that you have come across with some pretty sweeping accusations and condemnations. And your response? "I never said all."
I've lost a lot of respect for you.
Back to Piffin's original thread about RE agents (not inspectors)...
I've had my license for years, although never sold houses (I had it for reasons of property management, lease signings, laws of agency etc...). But I know several people who are immersed in the business.
I've bought 3 houses with my current agent, and she's a keeper. Honest, dilligent, straight forward. Ive seen other agents, and heard 2nd hand stories to describe the shady back room dealings that people get so leery about. It certainly happens, and leaves the custormer (buyer/seller) feeling at their mercy.
How do you avoid feeling trapped this way?
1) Know the laws of agency. If you see an ad for a house, and call the listing agent; know that that agent is working for the seller. If it's the first day the house has been on the market and you place an offer at 8am....that agent may well wait a few days to present the offer. unethical? illegal??? YES. But they are working to get the best offer for their client (seller) not to mention their highest commision possible.
2) If you're buying a house, get a "buyers agent". This agent will work for YOU, finding houses that meet your reqirements. In the negotiating phase, they are there to advise YOU, and work for YOU. Keep in mind however that they are still working on commision, and still benefit from the highest sale price.
3) Comparison shop. Every thread in here about hiring contractors talks about interviewing, getting multiple proposals, etc... This is equally important in hireing a RE agent. Don't hire an agent because your neighbor liked them. Do your homework. I would add to that that you should meet with agents IN PERSON. Don't hire one over the phone. You can tell a lot by sitting across the table and looking into their eyes during the conversation. If their personallity doesn't suit you, find one you are comfortable with.
4) If you feel like some shady dealing is going on (or potentialy could), insist on presenting your offer in person to the seller. The agents will HATE this with a passion, and it isn't usually done. But you are the person bringing $ to the table, and you can insist. By doing this, you can insure that your message gets across to the seller correctly, and takes away SOME of the agents ability to "spin" their thoughts to their client. Don't expect an answer at the meeting, the agent and seller will still want to talk alone to discuss the offer, and their strategy. You might want to ask potential agents if they have a problem with this appreach before you hire them.
4B) Last month I bought a house where the sellers lived in another state (so I couldn't meet with them personally). I composed detailed letters instead, which accompanied the written offers and counter offers. These explained in detail reasons behind wanting a reduction in price due to X, Y and Z reasons, etc... The offer referenced the letter, and the letter referenced the offer; so that the seller would know that some peice of paperwork was missing if their agent decided to scrap the letter.
5) If you experience illegal/unethical behavior of an agent, by all means report it. In New Yor State, the agency that administers the RE licenses is the NY "Department of State". They do fines, license suspensions, etc... An agent without a license can't sell a dollhouse.
(sorry for the long post).
I dont really want to run them down . I dont think I have , except I said they are a jealous lot . They are cooped up in an office all day with each other , and they rarely get along with each other every day. I know for a fact that they pull things on each other , at least she told me that. Im thinking they get worn down to it. Sales in a closed group of people such as the same office wears on folks Im sure. But Im not condonning it . Ive been associated with them for a long time and Ive heard too much [ from them] to believe they are any different. Im also not saying that there arent agents that are different , but she is the best one I know.
Tim Mooney
Andy
Why in the world do you think an inspector needs to be an engineer to be any good. Using that same line of thought all contractors should be engineers also.
timh
ps I hope your wife does read this , would like to hear her thoughts