Ok so as I’ve told you all until you’re bored to tears I’m sure, I’m about to finish up a quote for my first good sized for hire project. It’s a 256 sq ft elevated addition. Nothing very exotic, vinyl siding (which will be subbed out as well as the roof), no plumbing. HO is going to do the tile floor himself. Cathedral ceiling. Let’s see, what else seems pertinent? The material looks like it’s going to come in around 6,500 which includes an allowance for windows, doors and basic trim. There will be a small deck and stairs which I haven’t specd as they haven’t decided on material but are leaning towards cedar. (I’m guesstimating another 2,500 for the deck and stairs about 45 sq ft deck). I plan to hire a carp to help and/or do most of the framing etc. I’ll be doing the trim, taping and mudding myself I imagine. I’m figuring about 8 weeks of hired help at about a grand a week. I also am figuring that excavating and pouring the 7 piers and footings is gonna be around 2 grand. So I plug all this stuff in and I’m looking to quote a total of around 28K. Obviously I know there are many ifs ands or buts I haven’t accounted for here (also don’t want to totally bore you all into a coma). Does this sound realistic? Am I neglecting anything obvious? (if this enterprise gets off the ground I’m going to have to name my first born “Breaktime”)
Thanks one and all…
Paul
Replies
You're kidding, right? A quick little verbal description, and you want us to check your estimate?
Come on. Get real. Bid the darn thing and get on with it. You will learn if you did your estimating right, and the learning will be worth more than the time you are probably wasting by asking us Breaktime junkies.
Fair enough Bob... personally I've always taken the tack that if I find someone's questions beneath me (and I spend an awful lot of time answering them in my areas of expertise) I simply don't answer. But hey... that's just me.
Paul
Ok, lets see...
$1000 per week for labor...at 40 hours...that's $25/hr...does that include you and him, or just his part? Overhead included?
Material $6500
Deck & stairs $2500
Labor $8000
Foundation $2000
Total $19,000 from $28,000 = $9,000...is that your profit, or your labor, or what?
256 sf addition @ $28,000 = $109/sf Looks ok on the surfasce since there a premium for building small.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Thank you Ed...
The 1000 a week is what I anticipated paying a qualified carpenter, with my supplying any tools he doesn't have. The remainder was my gross profit. That's basically what I was asking whether it seemed like a realistic quote, thanks for the input.
Paul
Well, if you're OK with $9000 for a job that'll probably run 10-12 weeks, and all the upfront work to get it going, the accounting, insurance, truck, cell phone, warranty issues, liability for the next ten years, etc., then I guess you can run with it.
Personally, I'd add in for my own labor for the duration of the job, and then mark up accordingly on the total. Off the top of my head, I'd probably bid that job at somewhere around $45-50,000, assuming your costs are all correct.
If you're going to continue to bids jobs like this, you should really get a better handle on how to properly price your own labor and add for OH&P. Otherwise, you'll end up working at Home Depot in no time.
Bob
Wow... That's a wake up call. Thanks for that Bob. I'm very aware of not wanting to give my work away from the business I've been in for the past 20 years. My concern was not wanting to be "greedy" as a result of being naive. I guess I figured that a more experienced builder would be able to do the job faster and more efficiently than I would and I didn't want to penalize my client for my inexperience... Maybe I'll chew on it a bit since I have time before we meet next. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.
Paul
Bob is right. If ytou have a full-time job and this is something on the side, then you can sell your time for less. But if you want to make a reasonable profit, you do need to consider all the overhead items. Like the $1,000 for the helper...how are you going to pay him? $25/hr on a subcontractor basis, or is he an employee and you need to pay uncle sam on top of that?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Well, specifically I plan to pay him as a subcontractor. But everything you guys have said is a good eye opener. Although I have a "day job" I plan to spend most or all of my time on this project so I agree that I need to be less eager to land the job and more eager to make sure it's worth my while. Thanks!
If your day job is going to pay benefits and a steady income, then there's nothing wrong with cutting your profit to get the job. Just be sure you don't do cheap work.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I agree entirely Ed. There are two factors I'm trying to keep in mind. First, this hopefully is the start of a new career for me, and I know from experience that if you get a rep for being the cheapest guy in town that's the only work you're ever going to get. Secondly, in the business I'm in now (commercial photography), every yayhoo with a camera gets a business card that says "Photographer" and shoots assignments for next to nothing on the side, making it almost impossible for guys to whom it's a career and a trade to make a decent living and support their families. Both of those are things I don't want to be guilty of. By the same token I am a newcomer to the field and I'm not going to be as smooth and efficient as a more experienced guy. In any event, I do appreciate all the time folks here take to help out. If there's anyway I can return the favors...
Paul
If there's anyway I can return the favors... Got any nekkid piktures? If so, please send them to Luka.
if you get a rep for being the cheapest guy in town that's the only work you're ever going to get. Then you need to develop the reputation of doing excellent work for a good price. Don't even let the word cheap get into the discussion.Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Without any more specifics, sounds to me also like your price is mighty low.
AFAIK, you can't hire a carpenter by the hour to do as you tell him and then call him a sub. Perhaps those with more current knowledge will chime in on that.
Since you mention that this is your first such job, it may be ok to get paid less if you are trying to establish a business. OTOH, starting with a precedent of extremely low prices isn't good...
Nothing gets you into the reality of bidding better than a hard whack from the realitly of a blown bid, but it still hurts when it happens!You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
As regards that hired carpenter, are you going to pay him under the table? Ignoring the workers comp thing?
Have you talked to your accountant, your lawyer, and your insurance agent about this venture?
nekkid pictures for a fellow Breaktimer? sure thing... (let's see... http://www.veryfatnekkid.com?)
I don't plan to micro manage my "sub" to the contrary I hope to find someone who can work to a high standard without my looking over his shoulder. As far as pay, I plan to pay him as a subcontractor, and give him a 1099 I think it is at the completion of the job. He'd be covered under my insurance. In any event, I'm very grateful for all the advice. I'll be presenting my proposal soon and let you all know how it goes.
Paul