rebuild double hung/replace glass …
It’s been quite some time since this was part of the work day …
just checking to see if any “new and improved” methods/materials has come along.
nice old house going for a semi-historical preservation.
On rebuilding the old double hungs … they need weather stripped.
Is the old standby of V weatherstripping … aka sprung metal … still the best option?
I did a quick search and see lotsa talk about the self adhesive V …. I never used that … grew up using the little nails …. I wonder just how long the self stick stays stuck? I’m thinking nails would still be best … unless the sticky stuff really holds …as that’d be way easier.
Most of the sashes have to come out and new parting and stop applied … so weatherstripping will be a little easier ….
And … replacing a window pane. Got a nice big cracked one ….
we used to use glazing as a setting bed on the outside and inside.
Read that silicone could be used for an all weather seal ….
what’s the thoughts …. silicone better than glazing for the exterior setting bed?
Now all I gotta do is look back 10 or so years into the past to see how long it used to take me to do all this. At about 10 or 12 years old Dad decided this would become one of my specialities …. but I haven’t rebuild one in the last 10 years or so ….
I’m thinking 2 to 3 hrs each … set up to clean up.
Gotta be done one by one … it’s snowing here.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Replies
what's the thoughts .... silicone better than glazing for the exterior setting bed?
might be...I friend who worked a glass shop in FL showed me how to use Buytl caulk (gutter seal), and I like it, with reservations - it is sticky and can get messy unless one is careful...
2-3 hrs each...
so the glazing compound is in good shape everywhere?
edit to add: - the first thing I would do in this circumstance is to hose/scrub brush or pressure wash the sash and jambs - seems like your time estimation is real optimistic...
Edited 12/14/2004 12:58 pm ET by David Doud
How many do you have to do? How many panes in each sash? Be careful with your pricing...this could turn into a black hole in a hurry if you have many to do. Maybe you should try to find a good painter who's about 60 years old...if any painters live that long!
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
For reglazing wooden sash the old way is still the best way!
Dap 33, linseed oil oe WD-40 to "wet" the glaze rail, kneed the putty to soften and putty knife the exterior rail.
Some good threads on this subject....hit the search button!
Personally.... silicone is not appropriate and butyl is better for metal frames or for certain other glazing applications other than standard wood sash. Use either and the next guy that has to replace a pane will be calling your name in vane!
Total rework for a window, 2-sash, new w/s & stop, clean prome and paint??
Lots of unknowns...."Blackhole" is a good description...I bet on an average of a day per window.......Just a SWAG.............
....................Iron Helix
jeff - to date in the last 2 years i've done no less than 50 windows,100 sashes(no bs). i'll go by questions asked. sprung brass weather w /nails (i use aneedle nose pliers and a warrington hammer) still the best soft ,durable and looks like a professional application. i still use glazing compound , because u.v. rays effect caulk (depending on type )and thats how it was done from the get go(glazing compound). the procedure iron helix mentioned is correct way . when replacing parting and stop elements i usually try to salvage an old resonably straight studs or other similar type species from the existing components of the house if possible an mill that up and use those for stops or parting strips. if not parting strips etc. swell up and are a pain in the azz . and ..... 2-3 hours per window you are being pretty optimistic. and remember what ever you do to the window could change weight of the window i.e sash weights another frickin' fly in the ointment .especially if enough of the glass i s changed .so....heads up. there are diffrent degrees of restoration of sashes ,if theres is any decay or a rickety sash thats a whole new kettle of fish. any how west system works the best for the whole gamut of applications. the biggest culprit is the meeting rail and bottom corners of bottom sash. i like chain instead of the cord but obviously , whatever the existing. i could go on but your going to get alot of good advice here i have afeeling............ slainte'
your steelers pummeled my jets either way you look at it . but so far the best game for my money this year.........bear
."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 12/14/2004 6:42 pm ET by the bear
Bear,
When using conventional glazing compound, how long do you have to wait before it sets up enough to prime it? Sometimes it seems like it's still doughy weeks or months later....
The drying of the glazing compound is tied to temp & humidity....
So plug in that variable and I'll say that within ~3-4 days the Dap 33 should skin and solid up enough to support the flow of a quality soft bristle brush with primer, but it will still gouge with the errant stray finger. If not wait a little longer!
Do the glaze work first......then the rebuilds, repairs & W/S, and by that time the Dap 33 should be good to paint.
....................Iron Helix
with optimal conditions(50º +) low humidity ,one week with latex , two days with oil based paints. slainte' bear"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 12/15/2004 6:02 pm ET by the bear
Jeff
Same as some of the others, I'd use dap 33 and I think 2-3 hrs is low.
Doug
Also check out Resource Conservation Technology:
http://www.conservationtechnology.com
for weatherstripping.
-- J.S.
jeff, did you get that multimaster yet from fein. The scraper works well when the old glazing is tenacious and you have to get it out.
2-3 hours with sash cord replaced and all you plan to do is not enough.
enjoy yourself.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
good point...........b"expectations are premeditated resentments"
only one window ... that I know of ... is getting new glass/reglazed.
The other's are getting the sashes popped ... a quick tune up ....
new chains ... most are still whole .... with new parting and stops ... as I'm planning on most of it breaking as per the norm.
My painter will come in when it's all said and done ...
the areas of rot that'll have to be dealt with are above and beyond the 2-3 hrs ...
as is the glass/glazing.
Went to my stand by old hardware store ... even though they have a nice new(er) store ... they still stock everything .... usually ...
They had no V weatherstripping .... had a "spring" weatherstripping ...
same as the V ... minus one leg. Came in a flat roll ... looked to have a slight bend about halfway .... guy said it springs just the same ... they switched as the real V was coming off the truck bent.
Still gonna search out the stuff I've used before .... will give this stuff a try too ....
compare and see what's better. Probably the real stuff ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
For weatherstripping, there's also the option of inserting a teflon leaf. I set up a three-wing cutter on my router to cut the kerfs, and then the weatherstripping pushes right in (the shank is barbed).
I've also used the spring bronze. Both work well, but I found the teflon type to be more forgiving and easier to work with.
Do you just push the weatherstripping into the bare wood kerf, or do you put some paint or other coating in there first? I'd wonder about the plastic holding moisture in contact with bare wood.
-- J.S.
John,
I usually brush some sealant on the bare wood first. Sometimes I use primer.
"On rebuilding the old double hungs ... they need weather stripped.
Is the old standby of V weatherstripping ... aka sprung metal ... still the best option?"
This place has an array of nice seals that rout in place, though you really need their paper catalog to understand the possible options:
http://www.conservationtechnology.com/
Here is a place that has brass, bronze and zinc weatherstripping:
http://www.arcat.com/arcatcos/cos30/arc30091.cfm
BTW, I paid about $150 a piece to have mine removed, reglazed, stripped and painted on the outside for the simple one-over-one and $200 for the ones with the complex diamond pattern in the upper sash.
Oh, and use glazing for the bedding - for the NEXT person who has to remove a light. Removing the glazing is bad enough without having deal with caulk. Follow the instructions with regard to painting (ie soon is ok for oil based, but let it cure for at least 7-10 days if latex).
And the glazing should NOT exceed the width of the window muintin (I can't remember how to spell that thing), unlike some of mine...
Edited 12/15/2004 4:09 pm ET by BSayer
>>Read that silicone could be used for an all weather seal ....
hack
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
I set new glass in silicone and prefer wooden stops to glazing putty on the outside. Rip them ahead of time on the table saw, sand the edge that goes against the glass (can paint that edge too for a really high class job) install the stops with a pin nailer, lightly sand any pretruding edges flush to the face of the munton (or is that the "mullion"? never can remember) prime it right away. No muss, no fuss. One trip, one weathertight window, one happy customer.
Jim,
Do you machine the glazing stops yourself? Is there a beveled edge or are they just rectangular in cross section?
They're shaped like a right triangle if you were to look directly at the endgrain. That's when I'm using them instead of glazing putty.
I built all the windows for the house I'm currently working on and they are a little different. The stops stand proud of the face of the sash about 1/2". The top of the bottom stop is beveled about 15 degrees to shed water. Those are casement units though, not traditional looking like single or double hungs. Different style, different look, different detail.