I have been looking at alternatives to the typical asphalt shingle and have been researching a product made of recycled tires that is sold as a “fake” slate. Normally, I am against using any product which is trying to imitate another, opting instead for the genuine material. However, this product has caught my attention because of the use of recycled material and the “green” benefits that go along with it (both in the composition of the product and the reduced structural detailing needed versus using real slate). Living in western New York State, any product used has to withstand the harsh winter conditions. I would be interested to know from anyone who has had experience with this product:
A.) How is this material to work with during installation?
B.) How does this material hold up over time?
C.) What opinions do you (and more importantly your customers) have on the appearance of the finished installation?
Replies
There are about three such products that I know of. I have a sample of pone in my office that I am not convinced would stand high winds because it is so flexible.
They are easy to apply and cut, no problem there.
Our local library has the one called Eternit applied. Four years later, about seven or eight of them have lost their surface finish and look like rags tacked to the roof. I don't know what the long term prognosis is.
Theoretically, I like the idea but I'm willing to wait a while longer.
Piffin,
Ya' gotta keep the roof looking good with Armour-all.
Ditch
You know, there's a degree of truth in what you're saying. Maybe a uv inhibitor? Periodic maintenance?Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Yeah, bunch of young hardbodies in thongs rubbing sunscreen on the roof shingles. We'll sell tickets...and beer!
Ditch
if you are up north, you want recycled "snow" tires,
no turn left unstoned
...and if you live in a trailer park in the South, you don't need to recycle them at all!Syd
Not sure if it is made from recycled tires but we have used the fake slate roofing by Royal Building products on a few of the larger church restorations that we have undertaken where tight budgets and roof loading were a concern and where irregularities in existing roof framing made metal sidings impractical.
Our specifiers took some time to research, collect samples from various firms and put the samples through their paces of freeze thaw, uv degradation etc. The decision to go with Royal was in part a result of the warranty, and the fact that Royal has many divisions to support claims if the slate side of the business failed.
The one church that I pass often looks the same as the day the roofing was installed (it is in freeze thaw country, Ontario, Canada).
Because of the detail in the slate pattern and the range in colour (pallettes have to mixed on site) I think most people wouldn't believe it to be fake, even when a couple of yards from the roof.
Thanks for the advise/tip. I do not have any info or samples from Royal Building Products in my reference material but you can be sure I soon will. Thanks again!
Tony
Hey, great idea, hadn't thought of it before.
Can take old tires, bandsaw into 6 inch by 15 inch "tiles", and use directly as shingles. Will post a pix if I actually try this, should be a very durable roof. Could maybe even sell a roof like this as "green building"???
Art, I was thinking exactly the same thing.Quittin' Time
In the April 95 edition of JLC there is a story of a guy who has done this. It is real hard to see how anyone could argue that this isn't green building. I don't know how many fine homes will ever feature it but I have cut up a few of my old tires (It takes about ten minutes per tire) and I'm going to try it out on my sauna.
Im going to respond to your post as it is getting off subject. Im just going to throw this in your pot of thinking.
I have a friend that just visited a roofing manufactor facility. Seems there is a little of everything put in the tar paper and the same for shingles. Paper of several descriptions .They use recycle already to the point that these items are already green.
That said ; You would probably learn alot to visit their facility. Im sure they wont tell you this on the phone.
I think we need a "watch dog" out there telling us what is going on . Of course we would have to do the paying . I think in the hard business times we are in now , a lot of things are going on. Ive never been paid warranty but on one job , so the average would be low if you used me as a reference. I heard about a recent one that wouldnt pay and a lawyer filed a law suit against them . It is amazing how they changed their minds. They wrote a check . I think your post is a good one . I also think its bigger than we are with out help that is not available.
Have you ever heard of a product being made that they proably knew wouldnt hold up?Sure you have ! So we take the PFN approach , and wait .......................
Tim Mooney
From:
Tim Mooney
Jul-9 10:04 am
To:
ALL
(1 of 4)
21555.1
Enron is almost old news (already), but for those of you didn't quiteunderstand what the Enron collapse was all about, here's an example oftheir core business practice in its most basic form:An old country farmer with SERIOUS financial problems agreed to buy abargain-priced mule from a mule skinner for the low price of $100.The next day the mule skinner drove up and said, "Sorry, but I have somebad news: Your mule died.""Well, then, just give me my money back," said the farmer."Can't do that. I've SPENT it already," said the mule skinner."OK... Then just unload the mule," said the farmer (after talking with hisaccountant on the phone)."Whatcha gonna do with a dead mule?""I'm gonna raffle him off.""You can't raffle off a dead mule!""Sure I can. I just won't tell anybody he's dead.""But isn't that dishonest?""Don't worry about it -- Our bidders are prepared to accept additionalrisks for the lowest price."A month later the two met up. The mule skinner asked the old farmer,"Whatever happened with that dead mule?""I raffled him off just like I said I would. I sold 500 tickets at $2 apiece and made a paper profit of $898, less the expense for my performancebonus and consulting fees.""Didn't anyone complain?" asked the mule skinner."Just the guy who won. So I gave him his two dollars back."
Tim Mooney
The warranty wasnt signifacant was it ???
http://www.authentic-roof.com/
This product was mentioned in FH couple years ago.
A friend installed this stuff on his house in a historical neighborhood with many slate and copper roof houses.
They were hand-nailed.
He used the 'authentic' slate on the main part of his house and copper on the two wings, along with copper clad skylights, etc.
He can afford the real slate but went with the recycled material.
The roof gets tons of sunlight throughout the day and is on top of a two-story colonial, which makes it very difficult to tell apart from real slate.
We'll see how they hold up.
I don't buy the idea that this kind of product is "green" at all.
To me recycling means you recycle glass so you can make glass out of it again. This theoretically could be an endless process of recycling it over and over again.
In this case, you aren't really recycling anything, just re-using tires as shingles. Once they wear out, they go in the dumpster. Doesn't seem to me that you've gained much, if anything. And it's not what I'd call recycling.
A woman's mind is cleaner than a man's because she changes it more often.
Ah Lad , youve picked one of my subjects .
Green = saving our natural resourses. Any saving percentage . Blandex over plywood . Electric over any other heat .
If we could take the fuel out of the homes , we would be less dependant on the countries that hate us !!!!!!!
Blandex is made from wood that was left in the woods or on the floor.Scrap hardwoods and thinning pine can make blandex.
Used tires cost money to haul off. The EPA takes burning them seriously. It costs money to dipose of them and used paper products. Why not delay the dump charge on them ? There is a man in this town that designed a machine to band a dozen at a time to make it easier to transport them. Tires have been an issue for a long time . Nothing is ever said about shingles. Tires wont let the ground go back to normal if buried. Bout all they were good for was the fish, but not enough people taking them to them.
Recycle does mean to use the same product again , but green is totally different.
Tim Mooney
"In this case, you aren't really recycling anything, just re-using tires as shingles. Once they wear out, they go in the dumpster. Doesn't seem to me that you've gained much, if anything. And it's not what I'd call recycling."
Not a perfect loop, but you have (approx) halved the cubic yards in the landfill, and halved the use of virgin material. No recycling is perfect/lossless and given the likely long life of the roof, seems like a good trade to me. Only metal would be better.
An a BTW on the glass. There is really no shortage of virgin material for bottles, and simple crushing of the spent item is enough to get it to low-volume inert mineral material. The main goal of the recycling programs (IMHO) is to keep enough of a market for the spent bottles so that folks keep them clear of public spaces (i.e., litter reduction). (IMHO, also a worthy goal) There is really no intrinsic value to the material, and that is why a deposit is added to the bottle to give it an artificial value.
Aluminum cans are probably a better model for a good recycling loop. Relatively scarce and energy intensive material can be re-used (and litter reduction to boot). Landfill issues are less of an issue.
DonH
My point about the tire shingles was mainly that it wasn't really recycling.
As for glass - You can sell crushed glass at a price that pays for more than half the cost of processing it. so it does have some value. Plastic is virtually worthless no matter how much of it you have.
The deposits you mentioned have very little to do with recycling- They're aim is mainly to get people to pick up litter and turn it in for cash. I think most stores that take them back just throw the stuff in the dumpster.
Aluminum certainly IS a good recycling "loop". But it's getting to be less and less due to the influx of plastic bottles. No one walks along road sides and picks up plastic bottles unless they have a deposit on them.
Help Wanted: Telepath. You know where to apply.
I just spoke with a distributor about EcoStar which is the product you are talking about. It has a 50yr limited waranty. The benefit seems to be that it is light enough that it does not need any special structural framing vs real slate. I looked at a home nearby and it looked a lot closer to slate than any other asphalt product I have seen. I just didn't like the color mixes done by the installer. They looked forced and should be more random.
You can find out more about them at http://www.premiumroofs.com.
Other problems I saw were that a few seemed to be bent either during installation or some heavy wind. They did not flatten out and of course look ridiculous as real slate would never curl.
At 250/sq material only I am sticking to GAF slateline myself. It gives the most realistic slate look. Better than Certainteed and costs about 65/sq material where I am at in east PA.
As for being a green product... I, too, am not convinced. I am sure Greenpeace and all the other vinyl hating lobbyists have something to say about the dioxins the product will put off. Read the FHB article on vinyl in this months issue to give yourself a better understanding of the pros and con of any vinyl on your home. I agree with the author. I don't think a high end home should have vinyl on it.